Grumbling Grognard Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Wow. I have to agree. And I 'rarely' agree with reviewers. 5/10 but it will get better and if it don't hit 8-9 by the Holidays I will be surprised. And even as it now sits it is the best modern wargame I have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Here we have 1.5 out of 5!!!! http://www.arsgeek.com/?p=2233 Brrrrr!! And here: 9.5 out of 10!!! http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=44744&mode=thread&order=0 Best regards, Thomm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeezgob Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 First review is very disenchanted by the implementation of WEGO in this game and I have to say I'm with him on that. As has been said before RTS is definitely the way BFC wants to go. I'm presuming it's to broaden the commercial appeal of the product. However, personally, as an old-time table-top grog, I don't like the click-fest approach to wargaming, where your speed with a mouse and familiarity with a hotkey is more important than the tactics you employ. I'd always loved the BFC developed titles in the past because they were striving to be different and were pursuing something that wasn't on offer for dedicated wargamers. I have to say that it now feels like BFC are becoming just another developer of RTS titles. Although CM:SF is now off the the HD, I will see what developments future patches bring. Meanwhile there's still CMBO and CMBB, which I still play, and which still represent the peak of BFC contribution to the genre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Byte Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 However, personally, as an old-time table-top grog, I don't like the click-fest approach to wargaming, where your speed with a mouse and familiarity with a hotkey is more important than the tactics you employ. my thoughts exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeezgob Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Originally posted by Mr Byte: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> However, personally, as an old-time table-top grog, I don't like the click-fest approach to wargaming, where your speed with a mouse and familiarity with a hotkey is more important than the tactics you employ. my thoughts exactly. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetchez la Vache Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Sorry chaps but I have to disagree about CMSF being anything like a click-fest. On Veteran level you can pause the RT mode anytime and issue orders - isn't that simply WEGO with flexible order intervals? However I do fully sympathize with your viewpoint and I personally don't play Elite level because of the lack of pause option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronn Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 isn't that simply WEGO with flexible order intervals? No, you can't check back on other parts of the battlefield and check out what has happend in the last seconds on the other points of action. A battlefield has many points of action, but people have only one attention. For many wargamer this is like blindness. Other games with RTS aspect - for example Close Combat - shows you the big picture and expand very, very slow ... So it's better controllable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetchez la Vache Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 I fully concede that point. A reply function for the RT would be a great addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Bull Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Originally posted by Fetchez la Vache: On Veteran level you can pause the RT mode anytime and issue orders - isn't that simply WEGO with flexible order intervals?. Not exactly but yes, and you can do that with most other RT games as well. However, have you though about the implications of players pausing whenever they feel like it while playing multiplayer? It defeats the whole purpose of RT (and part of that involves how well you can manipulate your hardware to control the software that controls your units) and can get very frustating for both players as the continuity of the gameplay is at the mercy of each of the players random willingness to pause the battle to fine tune their orders at critical times. Of the RT games I have played online MP, pausing the game for this ends (especially if there are more than 2 players in the game) is simply not tolerated. Should it now be OK just because you are playing CMSF? Regardless, the attraction of playing a fixed interval WEGO game like CMx1, is a totatlly different experience and a greater tactical challenge to playing RT with the luxury to pause whenever you like. Plus you are always guaranteed a replay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeezgob Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Originally posted by Ronn: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> isn't that simply WEGO with flexible order intervals? No, you can't check back on other parts of the battlefield and check out what has happend in the last seconds on the other points of action. A battlefield has many points of action, but people have only one attention. For many wargamer this is like blindness. Other games with RTS aspect - for example Close Combat - shows you the big picture and expand very, very slow ... So it's better controllable </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetchez la Vache Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Well I wasn't intending to comment about RT MP play since I haven't tried it in CMSF, but I do fully understand the problem therein. I would hope for a TCP/IP WEGO option but that's already been discussed to death elsewhere. To be honest I always got slightly annoyed by the inefficiency of WEGO with those 'wasted' seconds at the end of every turn and personally enjoy RT more. With the minimal order delays we have in CMSF it is certainly easier than CMx1 WEGO, I agree. It's also less immersive when you try to control more than one combat group. However I still stand by my assertion that CMSF has not become a click-fest, albeit only within the scope of SP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJK Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Originally posted by Jev.Dk: What ever happend to "Its done when its done" policy? Paradox Interactive publishing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Originally posted by monkeezgob: As has been said before RTS is definitely the way BFC wants to go. I'm presuming it's to broaden the commercial appeal of the product. Except by Battlefront themselves, which somehow seems relevant. So try not to present speculation as fact. It's misleading and untruthful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Originally posted by monkeezgob: Clearly the addition of WEGO in CM:SF was an unwanted afterthought; it simply can't be implemented in a satisfactory manner. Poppycock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeezgob Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Originally posted by Elmar Bijlsma: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by monkeezgob: As has been said before RTS is definitely the way BFC wants to go. I'm presuming it's to broaden the commercial appeal of the product. Except by Battlefront themselves, which somehow seems relevant. So try not to present speculation as fact. It's misleading and untruthful. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Originally posted by monkeezgob: Clearly the addition of WEGO in CM:SF was an unwanted afterthought; Horse****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonxa Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Except for lack of WEGO in TCP/IP I can't see where WEGO is anywhere an afterthought? Sure, many people seem to prefer RT now but WEGO is still very much there. As I play bigger and bigger battles I will for sure switch to WEGO and it's a necessity for PBEM. I do enjoy RT for smaller battles though, they take a lot less time to play through this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 WEGO is there, fitted into an RT box. The game seems to be built to be played RT with WEGO as a secondary path. I am not saying that BFC did WEGO as an afterthought, but I do think the focus was on RT. Just look at the posts from BFC and the testers. Its all about RT and how great it is and they never went back to WEGO. Just look at how poor the TACAI is in being able to react to threatening situations. It alsmost seems like BFC is expecting players to manage that, but in WEGO, we are at the TACAI's mercy. That is what made CM successful and why its laser etched on my HD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeezgob Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 I think the review at arsgeek.com more than fully highlights the limitations of the way WEGO is implemented in CM:SF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Originally posted by monkeezgob: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Elmar Bijlsma: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by monkeezgob: As has been said before RTS is definitely the way BFC wants to go. I'm presuming it's to broaden the commercial appeal of the product. Except by Battlefront themselves, which somehow seems relevant. So try not to present speculation as fact. It's misleading and untruthful. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Originally posted by monkeezgob: I think the review at arsgeek.com more than fully highlights the limitations of the way WEGO is implemented in CM:SF. I really have a hard time taking any blog (is it even a real website) named arse-geek seriously. It is also self-admittedly his first ever review. I guess we wait and see what The Onion has to say next. Has al-Jazeera weighed in yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahger Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 If they are chasing the commercial bucks, they are somewhat deluded, as, at its core, CMSF is still a niche product. Unfortunately, attempts to satisfy the COH RTS market have compromised the game's playability (along with AI that is not up to the task of simulating contemporary MOUT). I think CMSF is a noble, but almost absolute failure in its current condition and I'm hoping like crazy that the effort behind the patches will be focused on returning CMSF as far towards its roots as is possible given the irreversible nature of some of the design decisions that have been made. I cannot imagine that the game has sold so well via Paradox that the attempt to grab the commercial brass ring (if that is indeed what happened) can be justified in terms of sales. It seems to me, therefore, that BFC have nothing to lose by doing everything they can to improve AI, pathfinding and WEGO gameplay once they've fixed the technical bugs like Vista, the Nvidia cards that don't work and things like the broken group-select box, shift and ctrl hanging the game and the non-functioning artillery adjust mode for Ati cards. On top of all that, Paradox was allowed to release a Beta game that got hammered by certain influential critics and was even worse than BFC's "final product". What a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarUSF Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: I really have a hard time taking any blog...seriously.Yeah! Blogs STINK!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Originally posted by JaguarUSF: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: I really have a hard time taking any blog...seriously.Yeah! Blogs STINK!!! </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeezgob Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Originally posted by Elmar Bijlsma: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by monkeezgob: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Elmar Bijlsma: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by monkeezgob: As has been said before RTS is definitely the way BFC wants to go. I'm presuming it's to broaden the commercial appeal of the product. Except by Battlefront themselves, which somehow seems relevant. So try not to present speculation as fact. It's misleading and untruthful. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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