Jump to content
Special Upgrade 4 Tech Tips

Eurogamer Review

Cid250

By Cid250
in Combat Mission Shock Force 1

 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 205
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

monkeezgob Senior Member

monkeezgob

Posted
Posted

First review is very disenchanted by the implementation of WEGO in this game and I have to say I'm with him on that.

As has been said before RTS is definitely the way BFC wants to go. I'm presuming it's to broaden the commercial appeal of the product.

However, personally, as an old-time table-top grog, I don't like the click-fest approach to wargaming, where your speed with a mouse and familiarity with a hotkey is more important than the tactics you employ.

I'd always loved the BFC developed titles in the past because they were striving to be different and were pursuing something that wasn't on offer for dedicated wargamers. I have to say that it now feels like BFC are becoming just another developer of RTS titles.

Although CM:SF is now off the the HD, I will see what developments future patches bring. Meanwhile there's still CMBO and CMBB, which I still play, and which still represent the peak of BFC contribution to the genre.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mr Byte Senior Member

Mr Byte

Posted
Posted
However, personally, as an old-time table-top grog, I don't like the click-fest approach to wargaming, where your speed with a mouse and familiarity with a hotkey is more important than the tactics you employ.
my thoughts exactly.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
monkeezgob Senior Member

monkeezgob

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by Mr Byte:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> However, personally, as an old-time table-top grog, I don't like the click-fest approach to wargaming, where your speed with a mouse and familiarity with a hotkey is more important than the tactics you employ.

my thoughts exactly. </font>
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Fetchez la Vache Senior Member

Fetchez la Vache

Posted
Posted

Sorry chaps but I have to disagree about CMSF being anything like a click-fest. On Veteran level you can pause the RT mode anytime and issue orders - isn't that simply WEGO with flexible order intervals? However I do fully sympathize with your viewpoint and I personally don't play Elite level because of the lack of pause option.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ronn Junior Member

Ronn

Posted
Posted
isn't that simply WEGO with flexible order intervals?
No,

you can't check back on other parts of

the battlefield and check out what has

happend in the last seconds on the other

points of action.

A battlefield has many points of action,

but people have only one attention.

For many wargamer this is like blindness.

Other games with RTS aspect - for example

Close Combat - shows you the big picture

and expand very, very slow ...

So it's better controllable

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lt Bull Senior Member

Lt Bull

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by Fetchez la Vache:

On Veteran level you can pause the RT mode anytime and issue orders - isn't that simply WEGO with flexible order intervals?.

Not exactly but yes, and you can do that with most other RT games as well. However, have you though about the implications of players pausing whenever they feel like it while playing multiplayer? It defeats the whole purpose of RT (and part of that involves how well you can manipulate your hardware to control the software that controls your units) and can get very frustating for both players as the continuity of the gameplay is at the mercy of each of the players random willingness to pause the battle to fine tune their orders at critical times. Of the RT games I have played online MP, pausing the game for this ends (especially if there are more than 2 players in the game) is simply not tolerated. Should it now be OK just because you are playing CMSF?

Regardless, the attraction of playing a fixed interval WEGO game like CMx1, is a totatlly different experience and a greater tactical challenge to playing RT with the luxury to pause whenever you like. Plus you are always guaranteed a replay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
monkeezgob Senior Member

monkeezgob

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by Ronn:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> isn't that simply WEGO with flexible order intervals?

No,

you can't check back on other parts of

the battlefield and check out what has

happend in the last seconds on the other

points of action.

A battlefield has many points of action,

but people have only one attention.

For many wargamer this is like blindness.

Other games with RTS aspect - for example

Close Combat - shows you the big picture

and expand very, very slow ...

So it's better controllable </font>

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Fetchez la Vache Senior Member

Fetchez la Vache

Posted
Posted

Well I wasn't intending to comment about RT MP play since I haven't tried it in CMSF, but I do fully understand the problem therein. I would hope for a TCP/IP WEGO option but that's already been discussed to death elsewhere.

To be honest I always got slightly annoyed by the inefficiency of WEGO with those 'wasted' seconds at the end of every turn and personally enjoy RT more.

With the minimal order delays we have in CMSF it is certainly easier than CMx1 WEGO, I agree. It's also less immersive when you try to control more than one combat group. However I still stand by my assertion that CMSF has not become a click-fest, albeit only within the scope of SP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Elmar Bijlsma Senior Member

Elmar Bijlsma

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by monkeezgob:

As has been said before RTS is definitely the way BFC wants to go. I'm presuming it's to broaden the commercial appeal of the product.

Except by Battlefront themselves, which somehow seems relevant.

So try not to present speculation as fact. It's misleading and untruthful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
monkeezgob Senior Member

monkeezgob

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by Elmar Bijlsma:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by monkeezgob:

As has been said before RTS is definitely the way BFC wants to go. I'm presuming it's to broaden the commercial appeal of the product.

Except by Battlefront themselves, which somehow seems relevant.

So try not to present speculation as fact. It's misleading and untruthful. </font>

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bonxa Senior Member

Bonxa

Posted
Posted

Except for lack of WEGO in TCP/IP I can't see where WEGO is anywhere an afterthought? Sure, many people seem to prefer RT now but WEGO is still very much there. As I play bigger and bigger battles I will for sure switch to WEGO and it's a necessity for PBEM. I do enjoy RT for smaller battles though, they take a lot less time to play through this way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
thewood Senior Member

thewood

Posted
Posted

WEGO is there, fitted into an RT box. The game seems to be built to be played RT with WEGO as a secondary path. I am not saying that BFC did WEGO as an afterthought, but I do think the focus was on RT. Just look at the posts from BFC and the testers. Its all about RT and how great it is and they never went back to WEGO.

Just look at how poor the TACAI is in being able to react to threatening situations. It alsmost seems like BFC is expecting players to manage that, but in WEGO, we are at the TACAI's mercy. That is what made CM successful and why its laser etched on my HD.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Elmar Bijlsma Senior Member

Elmar Bijlsma

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by monkeezgob:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Elmar Bijlsma:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by monkeezgob:

As has been said before RTS is definitely the way BFC wants to go. I'm presuming it's to broaden the commercial appeal of the product.

Except by Battlefront themselves, which somehow seems relevant.

So try not to present speculation as fact. It's misleading and untruthful. </font>

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Michael Dorosh Senior Member

Michael Dorosh

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by monkeezgob:

I think the review at arsgeek.com more than fully highlights the limitations of the way WEGO is implemented in CM:SF.

I really have a hard time taking any blog (is it even a real website) named arse-geek seriously. It is also self-admittedly his first ever review.

I guess we wait and see what The Onion has to say next.

Has al-Jazeera weighed in yet?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bahger Senior Member

Bahger

Posted
Posted

If they are chasing the commercial bucks, they are somewhat deluded, as, at its core, CMSF is still a niche product. Unfortunately, attempts to satisfy the COH RTS market have compromised the game's playability (along with AI that is not up to the task of simulating contemporary MOUT). I think CMSF is a noble, but almost absolute failure in its current condition and I'm hoping like crazy that the effort behind the patches will be focused on returning CMSF as far towards its roots as is possible given the irreversible nature of some of the design decisions that have been made. I cannot imagine that the game has sold so well via Paradox that the attempt to grab the commercial brass ring (if that is indeed what happened) can be justified in terms of sales. It seems to me, therefore, that BFC have nothing to lose by doing everything they can to improve AI, pathfinding and WEGO gameplay once they've fixed the technical bugs like Vista, the Nvidia cards that don't work and things like the broken group-select box, shift and ctrl hanging the game and the non-functioning artillery adjust mode for Ati cards. On top of all that, Paradox was allowed to release a Beta game that got hammered by certain influential critics and was even worse than BFC's "final product". What a mess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
monkeezgob Senior Member

monkeezgob

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by Elmar Bijlsma:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by monkeezgob:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Elmar Bijlsma:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by monkeezgob:

As has been said before RTS is definitely the way BFC wants to go. I'm presuming it's to broaden the commercial appeal of the product.

Except by Battlefront themselves, which somehow seems relevant.

So try not to present speculation as fact. It's misleading and untruthful. </font>

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...