Shooting Soldiers with a Tank?!

[Thomm]

One question here:

How big a part of the gameplay is shooting infantry? Somehow I do not have a good feeling with this. In the standard FPS the player assumes the role of a foot soldier, usually an underdog compared to enemy tanks.

With roles reversed, shooting infantry should be a one-sided affair, given that one would avoid to close in with them ...

What is your impression on this subject?

Best regards,

Thomm

PS: I played all OFP sequels, and I do not recall special ("morale") problems with engaging enemy infantry in a tank. But then again this was only a small part of that game, not the main focus.

[mike_the_wino]

What is the range of shoulder-fired, or crewed AT weapons? They present such a small profile that picking them out of the landscape might be difficult and there in lies their strength.

The more I see, the more excited I get.

[Moon]

Rollstoy, the focus of the game are tank vs. tank engagements. While the game is set in the Balkans, the storyline of the campaign is completely fictional. Of course you can engage infantry if you wish, but it's rarely the objective of any given mission.

Mike_the_wino is correct also in that infantry is far from defenseless, At least given the right terrain. Picking out an RPG gunner lying prone in high grass or inside a trench can be quite hard, at least at the higher realism settings (e.g. without AI aided spotting). Heck, it can be difficult hitting a prone soldier in open ground at a distance (most FPS games do not simulate realistic engagement ranges correctly, it is often more difficult to hit a prone human figure than they make you believe). Even more so since the soldiers in T72 do not simply lie still when fired at - they have this nasty habit of trying to get into cover quickly, crawling, running or sometimes even by rolling to the side

Martin

[yacinator]

I have an FPS related question, if your tank is knocked out or damaged can you get out and fight on foot or is that mission over?

[Moon]

When your tank is knocked out, then the mission is usually over (although you can follow what your attached units are doing).

When it's damaged, then it depends on the type of damage and the realism settings. Some damage (e.g. tracks) can be repaired (depending on the settings). Some damage makes you less effective but keeps you in the game, for example, a damaged gun sight or fire control system... handcranking the turret isn't fun, but you can remain in the game if you like. When testing a user made mission, I once had the engine/gearbox damaged which allowed me to drive around in first gear only, but I did manage to complete the mission.

Martin

[mike_the_wino]

As this is a tank sim, I can only imagine limited control of individual riflemen. Am I safe in this assumption? I ask because as I do not read or speak russian I have not d/l the demo.

I guess my real question would be is this going to be more like Dangerous Waters than CM? I did tinker around with the DW demo and have followed how auxiliary units are handled in that game. Am I correct when I assume that ground forces and air assets will be handled in a similiar fashion? i.e. give them orders to follow but can not directly control them as a FPS?

[Moon]

Exactly. T72 is a tank combat simulation, not a strategy game. The player's main focus is the control of his own tank (and crew). Once that tank is knocked out, the game ends.

While some units can be attached depending on the mission (including infantry and other vehicles and tanks), they then are under indirect player control only. The player can give them various orders (waypoints, formations, and so on), but cannot control them directly.

Of course, there can also be friendly forces on the map not under player control, i.e. purely AI controlled.

Martin

[Thomm]

Follow-up question(s):

Clearly, AT soldiers will be modelled in the game. How about regular (rifle) infantry? How many infantry do we have to expect in a scenario? Will there be infantry-versus-infantry fights?!

Best regards,

Thomm

[Moon]

Rollystoy, yes, regular infantry is of course in as well. You can choose a number of "models": officer, radioman, rifleman, rpg gunner, artillery (e.g. AT gun), tank crew. I am probably forgetting a couple.

And yes, infantry will engage each other depending on the AI logic scripted for it.

Martin

[Sergei]

Can you drive over them?

[Moon]

Yes. It's one of the realism settings - "enable crunchies on/off" or something like that

Martin

[Mc Porkchop]

I'm thinking running soldiers over would be more fun and challenging, but that's just me.

[Shadow 1st Hussars]

*cough*

Image

[Backguard]

The real challenge for T-34-85 driver it's roll over man armed with RPG-7

I know.

I did it.

Twice.

[imported_mike_the_wino2]

Originally posted by Backguard:

The real challenge for T-34-85 driver it's roll over man armed with RPG-7

I know.

I did it.

Twice.

Backing over a mechanic in the motor pool doesn't count.

[Backguard]

No, I managed to survive somehow ("Miracle! Miracle!" cried everyone).

[mracni]

In some parts of the war, tanks were used against infantry, a lot. M-84 (T-72), has two machine guns mounted, 7,6m coaxial and commanders machine gun 12,7mm. In urban fighting... it would look nice on the screen to see this weapon in use against infantry, it did not look nice in real war here. Mostly, tanks were attacked with rocket lounchers and Maljutka missiles (Russian made ~3,5km range!).

Driving it thrue houses is something that often happend, will it be possible?

[Moon]

Driving it thrue houses is something that often happend, will it be possible?

Yes, you can do it, but you risk collision or at the least track damage in most cases. (make sure you rotate the gun to the rear before attempting it )

Martin

[mracni]

GOOD! I know about the gun, from real life:) It's going to be realistic, I like it!

[Vuco]

The real challenge for T-34-85 driver it's roll over man armed with RPG-7

I know.

I did it.

Twice.

Here is a real life story how about an outdated tank against AT infantry.

Not an good ending for those in tank.

http://www.linux-penguin.org/achtungpanzer/articles/t3485.htm

[yacinator]

Originally posted by Moon:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Driving it thrue houses is something that often happend, will it be possible?

Yes, you can do it, but you risk collision or at the least track damage in most cases. (make sure you rotate the gun to the rear before attempting it )

Martin </font>

[Moon]

Building damage is tracked pretty realistically. So if the whole building comes down or only a part depends on which part you drive into... and how persistent you are in your attempts

Martin

[Snarker]

As far as buildings and running through them, do any have basements / cellars? Would ruin a tank crews whole day...

[Exel]

Why is this even an issue? Of course there should be infantry in the game, even if it is a tank sim. Infantry is still the backbone of any force on the battlefield. You don't capture cities with tanks or artillery, you don't hold terrain with helicopters or aircraft. That's what you need infantry for. And don't forget that tanks were first designed to assault infantry positions to gain breakthrough - it's a task they still are more than capable of doing, despite increased emphasis on anti-vehicular combat. Tank vs tank combat without infantry makes no sense, just like it would make no sense for aircraft to fight for the airspace just for the heck of it and not to attack any ground targets.

Sure an infantry squad without cover or effective AT weapons is an easy target for a tank, but so it should be. Tanks are supposed to dominate infantry! Still, infantry in covered with ATGMs or RPGs is a very real threat to a tank if it fails to see the infantry first (and is dumb enough to drive within range of their weapons unsupported). Also don't forget that tanks rarely fight alone, they are usually accompanied by mechanized infantry.

[Pandur]

about the buildings!

i played the russian beta demo, and experienced a funny happening while trying to drive through a Glasshouse(i hope this therm is right!? i mean thos houses with glass, where you can grow plants ).

id wasnt trying to drive through a real house, only the glasshouse(a small one ).

ok, my plan was to accelarate down the hill(a smal one) and break throug the glasshous, only to jump down this liitle cliff(about 1,50m high) behind it.

so i turnd my gun back(offcourse )and released the break. i crashed into the glasshouse with about 35-40kmh, and ended up laying on my side, unable to move forward or back.

the good thing was that i was able to get back on the tracks by turning the maingun into the ground, to push me back.

back on track , i passed the rest of the glasshouse at gear 1 without any problems.

if anyone want to try to break through a real well made glasshouse!? in mission 2(T55 mission), you kill all enemys in the town and there you go, try it bevore you go back.

greetings