ROFLMAO Can't Hep it!

[Desert Dave]

Geeeeeeeez,

What an INexpert, UNfinished,

Copy-cat (... no you duplicitous dudes over

to Smithereens/Matrix, it ain't LIKE

"PG," it's been sorta

"accidentally borrowed" - mostly from

'round hereabouts, IMO... and - as

I always say - who

else's - should I have? )

Piece of OVERpriced slab of UNDERcooked

Pizza Pie! In the sky! LOL!

Well,

I ain't gotta ELABORATE all the reasons

Why - do I?

$60.00!! :eek:

For - essentially, the SAME thang

Hubert put out for - 25 bucks?

OK,

Let's see... maybe,

A couple years,

10-20 patches or so,

Another iteration or 2?

THEN they can yak up the smack.

[... BTW: hmmmm, hard for me to imagine

another Geezer what wheezes so awful

supercilious as that fat-lip

Canadian Cat - LestheSarge... nope,

canno think of nary a one!]

Yeah yah yah yah!

I am been with Hubert for 5 years now

And I am a mite sympatico.

So what, that don't change nuthin'

IMHO.

[ June 17, 2007, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

[Ottosmops]

Not that I'm an agent from the 'other side', who tries to promote the 'other game', :eek: but why do you compare the prize of the 'other game' with SC1 (25$) and not with SC2 (55$)?

Do you judge from appearance (hexes) alone?

[ChrisND]

DD, I just looked at that.. utterly amazing. I can even pinpoint exactly where they got most/nearly all of their sprites graphics from.

[Timskorn]

I was thinking the same thing when I saw it. No diplomacy either, nor much in the way of scripting it seems. Just hard-nosin' war, which is good too I suppose, and if done right.

I haven't played it so I won't pass judgment, but there certainly isn't enough there to warrant me even trying to find out.

Nothing wrong with having another good WW2 game out there, anyway.

[Minty]

So I shelled out my money for this matrix game on Friday and have spent most of the weekend playing it (and I mean most of the weekend like I always do when I get anew game so 15 hours +) and was at first very disapointed. the comparision with SC1 is fair, not just the hexes but the little detils, transport not amphibs with same D day problems, research that once you spend on goes on all war, no diplomacy, weird long supply lines, near instant build times. it is basically a total copy of SC1.....but wait SC1 was agreat game and they have done some interesting things with it..

for a start the map is big, bigger than SC2 byfar and it makes for few more battle options. units can't attack and then move but if enemy units take too big a kicking they retreat and the attacker can follow up. takes some getting use dot but it ends up like some historial battle where a crucial breakthroug is exploited. As a result of this and the extra space the benelux /France invasion is lot more fun. and Barborassa is great, with encirclements, breakthroughs etc..

But the big differences are the resources. PP (MMP) which works the same basically but also manpower and Oil . everytime you use a motor unit, you use oil and guess what ? If you use more than you making then your tanks and planes stop working. you have to plan you offensives very carefully and it really puts the pressure on the nazis after a while and the russians at first before they can build up a big Oil reserve. manp;ower is good too, keep making units all you like and reinforcing but there are only so many young germans and brits available, lose too many and the fighting strengths of your troops starts to drop.

convoys are fun though, convoy ships (like transports) with MPP (sorry PP) are sent automatically along the routes and if they arrive then the other contry gets the money. And of course the germans try to damage them as much as possible. they might start with 40 PP and you can hit them with subs, luftwaffe, Tirpitz whatever you like. Each hit reduces the PP the ship is carrying and it takes them about 3 or 4 turns to cross atlantic to UK or Russia. makes a really good battle of atlantic, the axis subs are rubbish at first and too few in number against France and UK but once you buy a couple, build another ship or two , operate out of Frnech ports( naval units a bit cheaper than originally in SC ) then you have real fight at sea, something with SC1 or SC2 has never really got right.

But it seems very linear. with no diplomacy and semingly the USA , Romania, Italy joing historically regardless of what is going on. It;s just watch the axis have bigger guns and better stuff as they take over 2/3 of the map then run out of men and oil and see if they can take the last bit before they die. It seems they have tweaked it to force it toplay historically. This may have it's fans and Blashy's school fo histrocial gamers will like that aspect but it doesn;t really allow for too much Legend style madness. Early days though.

The victory conditions seem to strongly favour the Allies and the game carries on until 1945 and whoever has the most capitals win. Unless Adolf takes all of Russia and washington he has to play for along game. All while the oil and manpower makes for tense play it is a crude way to reign in the german war machine from aboutt 43 onwards and even the field.

Overall it is a very good game. But would I trade mt copy of SC2 for it? Not for all the oil in Maikop. The AI does seem a little sharper than SC2 but I love SC2 for the H to H games anyway.

Hope this is of interest to anyone thinking of spending the cash.

[Timskorn]

Thanks for the info, never hurts to hear from people first hand experience, especially one who enjoys SC2 and can try and give an unbiased opinion of the game.

Like I said, it's not a bad thing if another good strategic WW2 game is upon us. Still doesn't sell me though. Not worth the dough when we have SC2 available, plus the expansion. I'd rather use my $$ on that and support Hubert.

[Yogi]

Actually the Matrix forums are giving it some mixed reviews, but some are saying the more they get into it the better it is. Already a little talk about hexes instead of squares as well. Sound like a familiar argument?

I'm not sure yet if I will spring for it or not. By the way, it will be $39 on NWS.

[Guest Mike]

I playtested it for months & I wouldn't buy a full price copy but they gave it to us cheap!!

Oil & Manpower are 2 major advances over SC2 IMO, and there are some "back end" ones that are good too - use of a "shock" combat value for various things is a very good idea IMO.

Supply is much like SC2 IMO, although the mechanisms differ - however it at least represents troop and supply state on the icons, which is very good.

convoys are marginally better than routes because at least you can attack them with planes and surface ships. You can also upfrade minor allies' tech and commonwealth units are not a seperate nationality that gets no tech upgrades!!

The idea that they got icons from SC2 is stupid - there are only so-many ways you can draw a P-4 or a ME-109, and all of them originally come from the original versions not from previous games!! In fact these guys were looking for wargaming models to photograph for their sprites for a while so I expect that is where many of them come from.

However overall it leaves me a bit bored.

I don't like the research system, although IMO the idea that input carries on producing the goods for the whole game IS better than SC2's version. The whole "factories/focus" things just...well....it doesn't seem like WW2.

Leaders are just little icons on units and are easy to overlook and there's nothing like leader units to represent major supply/rear area efforts.

Partisans are only present if a country is notconquered IIRC - so no Yugoslav ones......but you can get Dutch ones in 1940.....sheesh!

Naval warfare is just as bad as SC2.

Overall it's jsut "lacking" as a good strategic level WW2 game. I give it a B on the strength of the original features it DOES have.

[ June 18, 2007, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Stalin's Organist ]

[ChrisND]

Originally posted by Stalin's Organist:

The idea that they got icons from SC2 is stupid

I get a feeling that is directed to me. I never asserted they got any graphics from other games. What I meant was I knew the exact model and figure lines the graphics were adapted from.

[Guest Mike]

Yep - my apologies then - thought you were having a dig.

So what are the models??

[ChrisND]

Well the figures are from a very excellent line of figures called King and Country - do a search and they will pop up immediately. I use them myself for mods.

[Guest Mike]

Nice - I'm not into the larger figures, but I can appreciate the beauty of them.

[Iron Ranger]

Thanks for the review Minty, sounds like they got a few new ideas (oil, manpower) that are interesting. The focus on a liner line for combat however seams a poor idea. While I like the historical side of any war game, being forced to follow it all the time will remove any replayablity to the game.

[jon_j_rambo]

Wow, this is exciting stuff. The market is wide open?

Maybe Yodl will not buy it & I can finally be Champ? Yodl kicked my ass again today in SC2.

Will Rambo become the Commander, Europe At War?

[targul]

Just spent sometime looking at the new game. Seems like it maybe interesting but I will wait for the patch and see if people still like it or think it belongs in the trash.

[n0kn0k]

Originally posted by Stalin's Organist:

I playtested it for months & I wouldn't buy a copy but they gave it to us for free!!

Oil & Manpower are 2 major advances over SC2 IMO, and there are some "back end" ones that are good too - use of a "shock" combat value for various things is a very good idea IMO.

Supply is much like SC2 IMO, although the mechanisms differ - however it at least represents troop and supply state on the icons, which is very good.

convoys are marginally better than routes because at least you can attack them with planes and surface ships. You can also upfrade minor allies' tech and commonwealth units are not a seperate nationality that gets no tech upgrades!!

The idea that they got icons from SC2 is stupid - there are only so-many ways you can draw a P-4 or a ME-109, and all of them originally come from the original versions not from previous games!! In fact these guys were looking for wargaming models to photograph for their sprites for a while so I expect that is where many of them come from.

However overall it leaves me a bit bored.

I don't like the research system, although IMO the idea that input carries on producing the goods for the whole game IS better than SC2's version. The whole "factories/focus" things just...well....it doesn't seem like WW2.

Leaders are just little icons on units and are easy to overlook and there's nothing like leader units to represent major supply/rear area efforts.

Partisans are only present if a country is notconquered IIRC - so no Yugoslav ones......but you can get Dutch ones in 1940.....sheesh!

Naval warfare is just as bad as SC2.

Overall it's jsut "lacking" as a good strategic level WW2 game. I give it a B on the strength of the original features it DOES have.

You won't be disappointed with the SC2 expansion, I'm sure of that

Btw the Europe at war game looks like Panzer General 1 to me with a huge map.

Same graphics at the same angle.

[n0kn0k]

Subtotal:

48,14 EUR

Shipping: 4,72 EUR

VAT Amount: 8,12 EUR

Grand Total: 60,98 EUR

We're Sorry.

We were unable to verify your payment information. Please use an alternate payment option if available. Thank you

Like grrrr, they won't take my Mastercard :/

[n0kn0k]

Something interesting! Keep this in mind!

You pay nearly 4 euro's to be able to keep downloading the 130 MB file for only 2 years :/

Damn ripoff imho. Good thing I ordered both the digital download and the physical DVD.

Extended Download Service

Digital River, Inc. (“DR”) will provide, upon paid consideration for the extended service, the ability to reinitiate a download of any digital product file within an original order placed by end user (the “Service”) for a period of two years.

[jon_j_rambo]

I'm going to buy the $59 combo offer. Download & get sent the hard copy.

How much is the SC2 expansion? I plan on getting that too.

[Retributar]

Meee-Tooo!!!...that goes as well for me too...all the same thing's that 'jon_j_rambo' said!!!....it's just that i'll have to have it sent to a friend's place in the meantime [in KITIMAT, British Columbia],...since...so far only the foundations/& Concrete Slab with Radiant Floor Heating of my house W/Dbl Garage and 24ftX40ft Detached Garage W/Office-Kitchenette & Full-Bath are just being poured about right-now!.

[n0kn0k]

I've done a quick run through the game and noticed a few things.

+ Handicap mode for HvH play

+ Repair mode (though only full repair is possible, which is bad!)

+ Physical convoys

+ Mouse scroll zoom function

+ Indication of terrain influences during the casualty predictions

+ Retreats

- 1024x768 resolution only (Are there even screens made anymore with that resolution?)

- No land ownership cleanup algorithm

- Poor sounds

- After movement + rightclick your chance to attack is lost

- Windowed mode is stuck in the upper left corner of the screen

- I personally don't like the style and angle of unit graphics

- No way to check commander statistics after assigning them

- Units start without experience in 1944 !!!

The sheer number of testers made me giggle since there are still some obvious flaws in the game.

[Desert Dave]

Originally posted by n0kn0k:

Something interesting! Keep this in mind!

You pay nearly 4 euro's to be able to keep downloading the 130 MB file for only 2 years :/

Damn ripoff imho. Good thing I ordered both the digital download and the physical DVD.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Extended Download Service

Digital River, Inc. (“DR”) will provide, upon paid consideration for the extended service, the ability to reinitiate a download of any digital product file within an original order placed by end user (the “Service”) for a period of two years.

</font>

[n0kn0k]

Originally posted by Desert Dave:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by n0kn0k:

Something interesting! Keep this in mind!

You pay nearly 4 euro's to be able to keep downloading the 130 MB file for only 2 years :/

Damn ripoff imho. Good thing I ordered both the digital download and the physical DVD.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Extended Download Service

Digital River, Inc. (“DR”) will provide, upon paid consideration for the extended service, the ability to reinitiate a download of any digital product file within an original order placed by end user (the “Service”) for a period of two years.

</font>

[Desert Dave]

Originally posted by n0kn0k:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Desert Dave:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by n0kn0k:

Something interesting! Keep this in mind!

You pay nearly 4 euro's to be able to keep downloading the 130 MB file for only 2 years :/

Damn ripoff imho. Good thing I ordered both the digital download and the physical DVD.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Extended Download Service

Digital River, Inc. (“DR”) will provide, upon paid consideration for the extended service, the ability to reinitiate a download of any digital product file within an original order placed by end user (the “Service”) for a period of two years.

</font>

[n0kn0k]

Originally posted by Desert Dave:

You said the PRODUCT itself was no damn good,

Never mind... the delivery system.

And yet,

You HAVE ordered this one,

If I am reading correctly, IE,

"Good thing I ordered the digital download

and the physical DVD."

So.

Now?

Of a sudden?

You are liking the products better

Than you - once upon a time,

Did? :confused: [/qb]

You can't be a critic without testing the product

I don't mind spending the money, it made me a bit wiser again and my review supported my earlier views of Slitherine.