Honch Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Whatever I try I always fail in stopping Sealion by a competent PBEM opponent. What are some of the strategies others use to stop a Sealion? I have reduced Axis amphibs to 3 action points but I think that having amphibs spend one turn at sea before being able to unload would help. The RN could then be useful. Right now its not. Also, the RAF has to be better reflected. A few attacks by the Luftwaffe high morale planes and the RAF and any land units in Southern England are toast. Historically, the RAF always maintained high morale. There should be a 25% morale and readiness bonus for fighting over home territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Axis amphib at 4 is enough. If a UK player can't spot those amphibs coming, he's not playing properly with his navy, AF and bomber. I think their is something wrong with AFs, Germany has 3 AFs and the UK 1, I don't think they were outnumbered 3 to 1, was it not almost equal? Either the UK should maybe receive an extra AF or Germany should have one less, I would be more inclined to remove one from Germany. Anyone have more information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John DiFool the 2nd Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 When does the Desert AF show up? Easy to op it back to the UK. 3:2 odds seems about right for any Battle of Britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honch Posted July 19, 2006 Author Share Posted July 19, 2006 Its not just the odds. If he gets lucky with advanced aircraft and his 3 AF are over 90% morale and readiness after the fall of France they just ravage anything in the UK. You can't often have land units or RN units in the South. Another option would be to have anti-aircraft tech apply to ALL tiles, even empty ones. There would be an anti-aircraft check on every tile that the AF passes over. This would better represent the advances in radar that the UK relied upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fartknock3r Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 The luftwaffe seems to be able to always neutralize the RAF in 1940. If the UK player has 1 extra AF, the chance of an opponent succeeding and even launching a sealion would be lower. If Air power isn't counted, i can hold against a sealion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 It's not the airpower factor really. You are overlooking the real problems, air only means spotting, and striking ports, there are many ports of operation if the Axis player is smart. The only way to really harm the Germans in any Sea Lion is reduce all French occuppied ports to strength 4 till a certian time, reflecting the slow transfer of French resources to the Axis... Also include a British HomeGuard if invaded, which is historical, 2 or 3 corps entrenched fully 3, along with what that Player places on London and Manchester. That simulates fairly well... in the Battle of Britian, Fighterwise, they were pretty even... probably near 2 to 1, but Fighter Command was on the side of the Brits, so a HomeGuard HQ, with a rating if 9 appearing if a Sea Lion is imminent would make things more healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agamemnon Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Its not just the odds. If he gets lucky with advanced aircraft and his 3 AF are over 90% morale and readiness after the fall of France they just ravage anything in the UK. You can't often have land units or RN units in the South. If Germany does a Sealion right after the fall of France, readiness for the US and USSR goes way up. Meaning, they are getting a lot more MMP's than the Axis. Let Germany do a Sealion that early, it's suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 agreed, and Egypt is firmly in Axis grips.. Though few Axis do this, they wait till Egypt is firmly in their grips, their tech is up and an offensive can be launched against barby? My question is, can Russia and the USA win without the UK at all? Originally posted by Agamemnon: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Its not just the odds. If he gets lucky with advanced aircraft and his 3 AF are over 90% morale and readiness after the fall of France they just ravage anything in the UK. You can't often have land units or RN units in the South. If Germany does a Sealion right after the fall of France, readiness for the US and USSR goes way up. Meaning, they are getting a lot more MMP's than the Axis. Let Germany do a Sealion that early, it's suicide. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyazinth von Strachwitz Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 @ Liam: depends on the time frame.. if this starts in 1940 or early 1941 I think the Allies win... but with a start in 42 and a bit of minor grabbing before it tends more to the axis... So I would say: the later that scenario occurs, the more it goes into the hands of the Axis. I have seen what experienced Italian Armies Level 3/3/2 do with low tech USA troops in Algeria... (was like kicking ducklings) so if the Axis has time to research and upgrade and have an economic basis as well, they become a deadly opponent. [ July 20, 2006, 01:36 AM: Message edited by: Hyazinth von Strachwitz ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 UK knocked out = axis win the war most of the times. The allies need the british home isle to d-day, any other part (med or whatever) do not threaten Axis enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I would simply reduce the range of amphib transports to 3 and perhaps increase damage to amphib transports when attacked by warships. (You have the amphib tech to increase the range). Regarding Liam suggestion I am against it. Its part of the task of the player in secure England aginst Sealion. already the "switch of the capital" to Alexandria leads to strange strategies of the Allied player. What does it matter to lose England? Nothing its even better if you can hold Afrika . Switch simply the whole english fleet to the med and voila. As the game right now works its simpyl better to force ITaly early in the war. Kick him out of Afrika and dig in. Defending the homeland is low priority. Another good step against sealion would be simply to beef up the french campaign. If the german player has to fight its way through France than we would sea less cheesey sealions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyazinth von Strachwitz Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 @ Sombra: increasing the damage to transports from attacking warships is definitely needed.... last weekend I did a late sealion to end the game (russia down already)... I had a transport near Bordeaux which was attacked by an english BB, and it was reduced from 10 to 9... complete nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 1 point of damage, that is weird considering it has a 0 defense in all categories. You figure 0 defense means you die very easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyazinth von Strachwitz Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 @ Blashy: Exactly. In my understanding when a BB fires on a transport unit for a whole turn, then the transport is GONE.... or at least severely damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I guess HC looks at it from the point of view that one amphib in SC of 1 corps is 60k people (or about) so it is many boats. You don't get ALL of them. Although it should be a shooting gallery, I would say 4-5 points of damage no less from anything (ships, planes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyazinth von Strachwitz Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Agreed... AFAIK a BB in the game is also a group of certain vessels... they never get them all. But the attack values against transports should be dramatically increased..... i.e. double the normal if the target is a transport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.J. Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 You wouldn't get all 60,000 but you'd certainly get more than 10% of their foxhole strength, or their follow up supply ships. If a BB can kill 30% of an army on land, I'd expect they'd do a lot more damage to them when they're at sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyazinth von Strachwitz Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 That`s exactly the point.. the formulas needs to be tweaked here.. Another point in the to do-list for 1.03.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottosmops Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Originally posted by Blashy: 1 point of damage, that is weird considering it has a 0 defense in all categories. You figure 0 defense means you die very easily. :confused: If I understand the formulas in the manual correctly, then the defense value influences only the damage, the defender inflicts on the attacker. For the losses of the defender (the transport in this case), only the attack value of the attacker counts, besides readiness and experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honch Posted July 20, 2006 Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 In my "Honch Expanded Scenario on cmmods" I have done the following to try and make a Sealion less likely and more difficult. (more realistic) 1. The UK begins with one full strength RAF, another one arrives in January 1940 and a third in July 1940. 2. I have added fortifications along the extreme South East tip of the UK representing the White Cliffs of Dover and pre-exisitng defenses there. 3. I have increased UK starting anti-aircraft tech to 2 and given 2 points to London, Chatham and the port of Southhampton which I added. 4. An event script adds four 1/2 strength corps (home gaurd) upon a Sealion landing near London. 5. Axis amphibs are reduced to 3 action points. 6. I added the HQ Freyburg at the start which should add some readiness to the RAF. Are these fair adjustments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Yes, I have also had my Battleships become pretty worthless in SC2 against a whole host of targets. They had 18 inch guns, cruisers, destroyers, gunboats, etc... as support units... They should have good antiair and very very good anti-shipping capabilities, they were very good at raiding...German ones in particular... I'd trade them all in for Cruisers, the only thing they're good at is bombarding land or hurting other surface ships which there are only 1 Cruisers. Since Most of the action you'll see in this game is sub vs surface ship or amphib vs surface ship doesn't do much good. Total naval supremacy with battleShips and Cruisers seems mainly for blockading or spotting purposes.. Or better with GLR, perhaps giving the British navy 2 Bars of experience each would help??? Maybe a few of them, 3... that way they could sneak in a do some real damage and they were the Pride of the Admiralty, in SC they're a Joke and the Luftwaffe is an Ace, it just flew a few sorties in Spain It seems better to sacrifice your Battleships to kill the Italian Navy to get more bang for you buck If 60,000 men, or worse 200,000 or thousands of tanks were transporting.. A Battleship from the UK or Germany without support on the side of the amphibious unit would be obliterated. Subs would be effective even, raise up, and use their deck gun after firing off every torpedoe, probably knock a large percentage of 60,000 men loaded onto hundreds of slow moving transport crafts. Read up on Gaudalcanal, on the power of air, naval units and transports. It was a very tedious thing, naval warfare and amphibious transport. The US used fast Cruiser-Transports Why don't we get these? And Floating tanks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scook Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 My experience has been identical, 0 strength transports take a good whacking from the navy and keep on trucking. In the same vein, 0 strength HQs take some good hits and keep going too. I think HQs should be able to take some damage, but the transports are nonsensical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Check your supply and what kind of sea's we are talking about. If its low supply and stormy sea's your not going to do much damage to any kind of ship. If the transport is in a port, forget it unless you attack with subs or CV's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyazinth von Strachwitz Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 In my case there was calm sea and good supply... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 maybe the tile you were attacking from had bad weather and the tile his transport was, had good weather...in this case, as I know, 'your' weather was the one that mattered. otherwise, it's kinda strange...good weather+good supply should mean a lot more than 0 unless that transport was considered a 'land' unit due to some weird bug...but i doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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