aesopu Posted April 7, 2006 Author Share Posted April 7, 2006 Thanks for the exchange and insight Blashy and Hubert. But I still think the amphib aspect is overpowered in my humble opinion no matter what strategy you may choose. But I am still happy with the game overall. I may make amphibs cost more in the editor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Originally posted by aesopu: Thanks for the exchange and insight Blashy and Hubert. But I still think the amphib aspect is overpowered in my humble opinion no matter what strategy you may choose. But I am still happy with the game overall. I may make amphibs cost more in the editor. How about I make you a deal, play the full game for one week. Then play one game vs. myself with me as Allies. BEFORE making any changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 dont make any changes! thats wat MODS are for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 except please dont let it be a domino effect PLEASE! IE germany takes london and USSR and USA declare war please let there be an option to make them neutral or this is obviously heavily biased toward the allied side and the fun in playing the axis is and always has been, WINNING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 in my very humble opinion that would wreck the game lets keep in mind thats wat this is, a game. if u tried to win the war but russia and america came into it and u were in the middle of a huge invasion of britain... hmmm lets see wat would happen to u? duh game over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 According to the manual, taking London has a big influence on Spain and Turkey joining the Axis. Invest in diplomacy and an early sealion may give you two allies, one on the southern border of Russia! Sealion #3 (Spain -> Axis) – An activation #2 event. Axis land units in England resulting in a one time 30-40% increase in Spanish activation towards Axis. This is dependent upon Axis land units capturing and holding London or Manchester. Sealion #4 (Turkey -> Axis) – An activation #2 event. Axis land units in England resulting in a one time 45-55% increase in Turkish activation towards Axis. This is dependent upon Axis land units capturing and holding London or Manchester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 ty edwin jus checkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aesopo Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 I will take you on on that challenege Blashy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Andrew Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Germany starts with more units than anybody in the demo... and you can't purchase more. So I don't think it's a big shocker than you can take England. Maybe someone may actually be able to take Russia or the USA too? BUT - it doesnt mean that the game is broke or needs any changes! I suspect that many/most "gamey" tactics found in the demo won't work in the real game. Blashy and Bill (not to mention HC) have that perspective. We don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fubarno Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Those in the know, those that have played the full game obviously have the better perspective. But if they're somehow wrong, I would think the best option is not to limit the amphib movement to 2-3 as someone mentioned. Too unrealistic considering the timeframe of each turn. It would also preclude much chance for the sneak attack nature that an amphib maneuver relies on for success. Perhaps a soft build limit on the number of amphibious transports for each major power, as there is for the other units, would be a more elegant solution. The biggest problem for Germany historically was the lack of transportation and naval assets to transport a sizeable force across the channel. I know it's fun to try and change history, but I think most want to attempt it in a way based on the realities of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Dozer Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 i think landings on magors first turn is fine now since the magor can and will have to watch its border. im conflicted with the amphibious landings. true they should be able to do a surprise atack not wait a week or month outside the shores. but on the other had UK will fall easier. good move having a third capitial in egypt since this will deter a sealion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exel Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Amphibs should not be able to unload the same turn they load up. But they should be able to unload after moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Andrew Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 What do you do then with the D-Day problem in SC1? Whenever Allies move transports to the France, you just line up cheap Axis minor and Italians along the shoreline - blocking every landing hex. While it looks like more tiles are now available to land on/defend, the amphib transports can really bring that "invasion" feel. But perhaps you're right and a soft limit on the number of them is a good idea. At least it's something to keep in mind for a "playability issue" that HC could easily fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fineturno Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 I suppose the great power of amphibs can be simply corrected by a more expansive setting. What do you think about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Having played ENOUGH games All the way through to D-Day and beyond, I can tell you that: NOW, and unlike SC the Original, It is NOT any problem to land Sufficient Allied units So to establish a viable force Which can then coalesce Around a supplied HQ. Mainly due to necessity For Axis to use a LOT Of low-tech "garrison" type units To cover all of that conquered territory, And, guard against Partisans In MORE places, And, Given the force pool limits (... or even without; since cost of over-limit purchases soon becomes prohibitive) There is NO WAY for Axis to cover Every landing zone. Can't be done. Mobile reserve is one way to go, Should you be able to spare some units From the Eastern Front, which, By this time... probably dangerous to do. Or, You could have Engineer construct Some replication of "Fortress Europa," So to defend certain areas, As between the rivers, Or near Paris. But, upshot is this: there will be NO Remote resemblance to The "dance of the Corps" as it was before. Finally, You know what? It costs a very pretty penny To purchase amphib transport. **(... you CAN decrease this expensive amphib by investing, and having success, in "infrastructure") May not even need some sort of build Limitations. Though, that was a good suggestion. We'll see how she works out, but, As with EVERYTHING about SC-2, Only Hubert will finally decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMG42 Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 from a pure historical standpoint, I find too easy to set an amphib invasion, with nations who had not this capacity. If you read some texts or books on sealion, you understand that even with the RN sunk and the sky cleared of the RAF, the German could only have pulled a landing by fair weather, with only mild opposition on the beach. Just remember that it tooks much trial and efforts from the allies (and many men killed) to understand an manage the complex logistic of a big scale sea invasion. Now SC2 is before all a game, so one can just reply to me that my argument is irrevelant. Still something like a tech level in amphibious invasion could alleviate the problem. Not something costly, just a 50 MPP/level, with level 1 for all major powers, would be sufficient to prevent 6 german armies landing in the same turn. The effect of the tech level could be (for example) that you can have 2x tech level amphibs at a given time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 I will spend cash ANYTIME for loading american neutral units in boats and go find those subs instead of risking valuable RN ships ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Ref Sealion - just buy airfleets and some paratroopers and bye bye london unless allies keep a large force to block the tiles around the city. Of course if the game allows enough mpps for buying some extra AFs and paratroopers in the early stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Still something like a tech level in amphibious invasion This was one of Hubert's original Considerations, Long time ago, IE, A tech level for amphibious. And, For all I know, It yet exists somewhere In the back of his mind, though It may have dwindled down To a sort of ephemeral eidolon. I know you won't prefer to hear it Said quite this way, but, We'll have to see, As current schematic May yet work out dandy & fine. Once the turbulent Seas subside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Hellraiser, I just want to say that you are making A LOT of assumptions based on a simple demo and not the full game. Stating Sealion is too easy, ok, try it versus myself or any of the beta testers, you'll loose the game before the end of 1941. Protecting UK from a Sealion is A LOT easier than you think. How amphibious functions is fine, it has never been an issue, any "exploit" is not an exploit but a simple strategy that your opponent can adapt too. Play the game for a week, then play a pbem vs. myself with you as Axis, and PLEASE go for the Sealion . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 ... any "exploit" is not an exploit but a simple strategy that your opponent can adapt too. Gotta go with Blashy, MOST Especially With this game. He is the "gigantic envelope buster" And has tried, I suspect, Doggone near everything! No, That can't be true, As we'll soon enough discover. But, In all my years I'd NEVER seen one guy Rip & roar and juke & rake around That poor old test-game, as he could do! :cool: Same way with so-called "cookie-cutter" stuff. He said, 99.9999% probability it would NOT happen. Here I disagree some. I'd say... 99.8877% chance Of no such thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogi Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 --------, I just want to say that you are making A LOT of assumptions based on a simple demo and not the full game.This is why I started a whole thread on it's a demo and to "Chill out." Way too many questions, complaints, assumptions and suggestions are being made based on nothing more than a demo. I actually think they would have been wise not to release the demo until the game was out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Originally posted by Desert Dave: LOL! Thanks Dave, glad I could provide some entertainment for you, but a lot of pain to Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Originally posted by hellraiser: I will spend cash ANYTIME for loading american neutral units in boats and go find those subs instead of risking valuable RN ships ... Yes, "corps defence" moves from France into the Atlantic it seems. Of course you go for waek land units to destroy the u-boats. This exploits, what can be done about it dev team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Originally posted by Kuniworth: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by hellraiser: I will spend cash ANYTIME for loading american neutral units in boats and go find those subs instead of risking valuable RN ships ... Yes, "corps defence" moves from France into the Atlantic it seems. Of course you go for waek land units to destroy the u-boats. This exploits, what can be done about it dev team? </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts