You can take England BUT...

[aesopu]

Thanks for the exchange and insight Blashy and Hubert. But I still think the amphib aspect is overpowered in my humble opinion no matter what strategy you may choose. But I am still happy with the game overall. I may make amphibs cost more in the editor.

[Blashy]

Originally posted by aesopu:

Thanks for the exchange and insight Blashy and Hubert. But I still think the amphib aspect is overpowered in my humble opinion no matter what strategy you may choose. But I am still happy with the game overall. I may make amphibs cost more in the editor.

How about I make you a deal, play the full game for one week.

Then play one game vs. myself with me as Allies.

BEFORE making any changes.

[Marky]

dont make any changes!

thats wat MODS are for

[Marky]

except please dont let it be a domino effect

PLEASE!

IE germany takes london and USSR and USA declare war

please let there be an option to make them neutral

or this is obviously heavily biased toward the allied side

and the fun in playing the axis is and always has been, WINNING

[Marky]

in my very humble opinion that would wreck the game

lets keep in mind thats wat this is, a game. if u tried to win the war but russia and america came into it and u were in the middle of a huge invasion of britain... hmmm lets see wat would happen to u?

duh

game over

[Edwin P.]

According to the manual, taking London has a big influence on Spain and Turkey joining the Axis. Invest in diplomacy and an early sealion may give you two allies, one on the southern border of Russia!

Sealion #3 (Spain -> Axis) – An activation #2 event. Axis land units in England

resulting in a one time 30-40% increase in Spanish activation towards Axis. This

is dependent upon Axis land units capturing and holding London or Manchester.

Sealion #4 (Turkey -> Axis) – An activation #2 event. Axis land units in England

resulting in a one time 45-55% increase in Turkish activation towards Axis. This is

dependent upon Axis land units capturing and holding London or Manchester.

[Marky]

ty edwin

jus checkin

[aesopo]

I will take you on on that challenege Blashy.

[Capt Andrew]

Germany starts with more units than anybody in the demo... and you can't purchase more. So I don't think it's a big shocker than you can take England. Maybe someone may actually be able to take Russia or the USA too? BUT - it doesnt mean that the game is broke or needs any changes! I suspect that many/most "gamey" tactics found in the demo won't work in the real game. Blashy and Bill (not to mention HC) have that perspective. We don't.

[Fubarno]

Those in the know, those that have played the full game obviously have the better perspective.

But if they're somehow wrong, I would think the best option is not to limit the amphib movement to 2-3 as someone mentioned. Too unrealistic considering the timeframe of each turn. It would also preclude much chance for the sneak attack nature that an amphib maneuver relies on for success.

Perhaps a soft build limit on the number of amphibious transports for each major power, as there is for the other units, would be a more elegant solution.

The biggest problem for Germany historically was the lack of transportation and naval assets to transport a sizeable force across the channel. I know it's fun to try and change history, but I think most want to attempt it in a way based on the realities of the time.

[Mr.Dozer]

i think landings on magors first turn is fine now since the magor can and will have to watch its border.

im conflicted with the amphibious landings. true they should be able to do a surprise atack not wait a week or month outside the shores. but on the other had UK will fall easier. good move having a third capitial in egypt since this will deter a sealion.

[Exel]

Amphibs should not be able to unload the same turn they load up. But they should be able to unload after moving.

[Capt Andrew]

What do you do then with the D-Day problem in SC1? Whenever Allies move transports to the France, you just line up cheap Axis minor and Italians along the shoreline - blocking every landing hex. While it looks like more tiles are now available to land on/defend, the amphib transports can really bring that "invasion" feel. But perhaps you're right and a soft limit on the number of them is a good idea. At least it's something to keep in mind for a "playability issue" that HC could easily fix.

[Fineturno]

I suppose the great power of amphibs can be simply corrected by a more expansive setting. What do you think about?

[Desert Dave]

Having played ENOUGH games

All the way through to D-Day and beyond,

I can tell you that:

NOW, and unlike SC the Original,

It is NOT any problem to land

Sufficient Allied units

So to establish a viable force

Which can then coalesce

Around a supplied HQ.

Mainly due to necessity

For Axis to use a LOT

Of low-tech "garrison" type units

To cover all of that conquered territory,

And, guard against Partisans

In MORE places,

And,

Given the force pool limits

(... or even without; since cost

of over-limit purchases soon becomes

prohibitive)

There is NO WAY for Axis to cover

Every landing zone.

Can't be done.

Mobile reserve is one way to go,

Should you be able to spare some units

From the Eastern Front, which,

By this time... probably dangerous to do.

Or,

You could have Engineer construct

Some replication of "Fortress Europa,"

So to defend certain areas,

As between the rivers,

Or near Paris.

But, upshot is this: there will be NO

Remote resemblance to

The "dance of the Corps" as it was before.

Finally,

You know what?

It costs a very pretty penny

To purchase amphib transport.

**(... you CAN decrease this expensive

amphib by investing, and having success,

in "infrastructure")

May not even need some sort of build

Limitations.

Though, that was a good suggestion.

We'll see how she works out, but,

As with EVERYTHING about SC-2,

Only Hubert will finally decide.

[SMG42]

from a pure historical standpoint, I find too easy to set an amphib invasion, with nations who had not this capacity. If you read some texts or books on sealion, you understand that even with the RN sunk and the sky cleared of the RAF, the German could only have pulled a landing by fair weather, with only mild opposition on the beach. Just remember that it tooks much trial and efforts from the allies (and many men killed) to understand an manage the complex logistic of a big scale sea invasion.

Now SC2 is before all a game, so one can just reply to me that my argument is irrevelant. Still something like a tech level in amphibious invasion could alleviate the problem. Not something costly, just a 50 MPP/level, with level 1 for all major powers, would be sufficient to prevent 6 german armies landing in the same turn. The effect of the tech level could be (for example) that you can have 2x tech level amphibs at a given time.

[hellraiser]

I will spend cash ANYTIME for loading american neutral units in boats and go find those subs instead of risking valuable RN ships ...

[hellraiser]

Ref Sealion - just buy airfleets and some paratroopers and bye bye london unless allies keep a large force to block the tiles around the city. Of course if the game allows enough mpps for buying some extra AFs and paratroopers in the early stages.

[Desert Dave]

Still something like a tech level in amphibious invasion

This was one of Hubert's original

Considerations,

Long time ago, IE,

A tech level for amphibious.

And,

For all I know,

It yet exists somewhere

In the back of his mind, though

It may have dwindled down

To a sort of ephemeral eidolon.

I know you won't prefer to hear it

Said quite this way, but,

We'll have to see,

As current schematic

May yet work out dandy & fine.

Once the turbulent Seas subside.

[Blashy]

Hellraiser, I just want to say that you are making A LOT of assumptions based on a simple demo and not the full game.

Stating Sealion is too easy, ok, try it versus myself or any of the beta testers, you'll loose the game before the end of 1941. Protecting UK from a Sealion is A LOT easier than you think.

How amphibious functions is fine, it has never been an issue, any "exploit" is not an exploit but a simple strategy that your opponent can adapt too.

Play the game for a week, then play a pbem vs. myself with you as Axis, and PLEASE go for the Sealion .

[Desert Dave]

... any "exploit" is not an exploit but a simple strategy that your opponent can adapt too.

Gotta go with Blashy, MOST

Especially

With this game.

He is the "gigantic envelope buster"

And has tried, I suspect,

Doggone near everything!

No,

That can't be true,

As we'll soon enough discover.

But,

In all my years I'd NEVER seen one guy

Rip & roar and juke & rake around

That poor old test-game, as he could do! :cool:

Same way with so-called "cookie-cutter" stuff.

He said,

99.9999% probability it would NOT happen.

Here I disagree some.

I'd say... 99.8877% chance

Of no such thing.

[Yogi]

--------, I just want to say that you are making A LOT of assumptions based on a simple demo and not the full game.

This is why I started a whole thread on it's a demo and to "Chill out." Way too many questions, complaints, assumptions and suggestions are being made based on nothing more than a demo. I actually think they would have been wise not to release the demo until the game was out.

[Blashy]

Originally posted by Desert Dave:

LOL! Thanks Dave, glad I could provide some entertainment for you, but a lot of pain to Hubert

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by hellraiser:

I will spend cash ANYTIME for loading american neutral units in boats and go find those subs instead of risking valuable RN ships ...

Yes, "corps defence" moves from France into the Atlantic it seems. Of course you go for waek land units to destroy the u-boats.

This exploits, what can be done about it dev team?

[Blashy]

Originally posted by Kuniworth:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by hellraiser:

I will spend cash ANYTIME for loading american neutral units in boats and go find those subs instead of risking valuable RN ships ...

Yes, "corps defence" moves from France into the Atlantic it seems. Of course you go for waek land units to destroy the u-boats.

This exploits, what can be done about it dev team? </font>