Liam Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 First ended by Surrender in 1944, I couldn't beat him was a good game Liam Allies Second Game as follows: Poland fell, couple of turns, 2nd turn DOW on Denmark... taken Weather bogged down France, I shipped out Med French Corps didn't garrison with Brits and Italians entered in '39 Took Germany and Italy till September '40 to take France. I killed off 1 German army, did some vile damage on 4 or 5 Staple German Units... missed a kill by a few strength points Rambo starting hammering the Royal Navy, odd... I spotted a Sub, Level2!!! End of France, Egypt is left alone, I kill 2 Axis corps there. However 3 or 4 Level 3 German subs show up and start whacking the Royal Navy in port! a Whole 10 strength UK Battleship is destroyed. I am trying to escape, after about a year of this, 5-6 UK Capitol ships scrap metal no rebuilding those! Jesus! I cannot even shoot these puppies out of the water, they dive from every attack... Along with Kriegsmarine, UK is out of the match Meanwhile, Axis DOW late Greece and Norway and Russia is in the 70s for war... Egypt is still firmly Axis yes, and we haven't lost every UK Ship, but these subs are inhuman. They've killed 4 outta 5 of my ships in Port... I think ASW is going to be a bit late to do much good and the fact is two raiders are out killing all that Supply Tonage to the Isles... I'm dead in the water as UK but Russia will have something to say about this 1941 Spring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Rambo, dude - 1 turn before USA joins, just DOW them and kill the yank fleet in ports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Nice a succesful subwar!!! Yeah finally ASW will be necessary for the Brits!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonheart Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Yeah already wrote in another tread....when axis player is going for subwar the western allies are out of the war as the subs are much stronger than in SC 1.....i guess rambo will love SC2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Allies are not out of the war if they do ASW research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonheart Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Since they are only vulnerable mostly to cruisers as battleships and carriers dont do the damage like in SC 1 anymore you have to save your cruisers and search subs with battleships. In the case of Liam western allies ARE out of the war...as his fleet is gone ...as allied player you have the realize very early if axis is going for subs as ASW research is to late if most of your ships are gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Looks like Liam is just going to have to eat the MPP loss at this point and go for a bombing campaign in the West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 It is obvious for the allied player that if he encounters a lvl 2-3 sub, he must play his fleet safe until ASW kicks in. No need to try to 'let's hit, maybe this time I'll score on that sub'. The danger is not losing the RN, which cannot prevent a Sealion anyway, but confining USA force to their shores GG for Rambo - a new challenge for him: once USA joins, will your subs be able to send to the bottom the destroyer your uncle served on during WW2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 As a general rule, I would suppose that the Allied Player MUST assume that the Axis WILL attempt a Wolf-Pack tactic. UK probably should invest in ASW right from the start. If Axis does NOT opt for attacking the convoy lanes, then no need to spend vital MPP's to upgrade UNTIL such time as they do, if ever. Likely not until 2 French Cruisers cannot take losses instead of the RN. **ALSO: there is more than just the ONE way to counter them treacherous U-boots. (Naval) Bombers, with L/R Air tech. USA will get a (Naval) Bomber off the production queue in plenty of time to deflect some intended sub raids on American Atlantic Fleet. Wouldn't hurt for USA to also invest in ASW neither. Why ever PRESUME that your opponent is NOT going to go all out with a potentially VERY powerful weapon, the U-boots? :confused: IF the Lend Lease Route is being mercilessly obliterated, well, just temporarily reduce or cease sending treasure altogether... until such time as some "counter-measures" have been established. I'm sure USA can find some use for the saved MPP's? ______________________________ Anecdotal Report: In two separate TCP games I had invested 2 chits in "advanced subs" and did NOT get even the first of them until late 1942 in one case, and mid 1943 in the other. Rambo Jr got lucky here; won't always be the case, due to sheer vicissitudes of "good & bad" fortune. It all evens out over the course of many games, true? :cool: [ April 20, 2006, 07:39 AM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LampCord Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Seems to me its up to the US now to get ASW research. Save all those MPP's headed for UK and research ASW and try to get a couple CA's in the queue ASAP. Otherwise, there will be nowhere for the US ships to run when the German subs attack. I guess the best tactic for the Allies in such circumstances is run your navy to the Med untill ASW kicks in. I don't think German subs can get there unless Gibralter or Egypt falls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 USA gets 2 cruisers "free" so if he gets ASW before they are done production, them subs could face 4 cruisers and 2 battlships from USA alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Hehehehe...Was reading the manual last night about submarines or Das Boats. 30% chance of diving +10% for each level of technology. Was thinking...hmmm, after Terif's AAR about Egypt & Industrial Technology strategy and my last game versus Liam where Allies had a sick number of MMPs, I figured it's time (my 2nd game playing Axis) to go Legend. On turn #2, the Nazis began investiment in Submarine technology. The sub in the Atlantic did not raid, rather hid successfully. The sub in the Denmark area was brough to home port on turn #2 DOW on Denmark. The weather was terrible in France! Mud or snow every turn until June '40! Who cares, I had 5 chits in Subs I had a sub +2 in Keil, I was pissed when a French cruiser attacked him via that land/sea zone thing. Didn't care about the attack, but I got spotted with sub +2, I actually already had +3, but hadn't upgraded that particular Bunta. During the very slow French campaign of mud, I deliberately put a panzer unit on the coast for Liam to ping, so I'd take occassional pot shots on them with my LF. RAF intercepted a few times, but I was able to reduce a few ships down to 8, and one ship to 5. It took me to September to take Paris, I lost an Army & had many units damaged, it was slooooow. Meanwhile, the 4 original subs were refit to +3 technology. Then the attack. His ships ran from the English Channel to various ports. I used a cruiser to spot, then sent in the Wolfpack. First attack was on a British cruiser strength 8, I highlighted the expected results, I saw 1-7! Bye bye. I sank 2 BB, 1 Cruiser that turn. I sank everything I could find around UK in the next turns. RAF & Carriers tried to counter, but with 60% chance of diving, I only took a few hits, no losses. Since then, the Bismark has been jogging laps around the UK, while subs have been repaired and raiding. Think I've been doing 20 damage to Egypt route, and like 16-19 points to Canadian route. In Egypt, I took a weakass method, lost 2-corps outside Alexandaria. The Italian Navy has GR+1, killed BB down there. I think I've sunk 5 BB, and maybe 3 Crusiers grand total? Also dinged a carrier, but they ran away, probably to Canada or something. 3-Elite LF pilots are keeping London soft. Norway & Greece were picked up, and Bulgaria, Hungary & Romania have joined. Egypt is still UK's. I've built more subs, and now have Subs+4. I plan on snapping this brother's cap back. While the rest of the followers of Yodl jerk around with IT & want to play the Allies...I'll go Legend with subs. 99-Luftballons, Volkswagon, isn't zee wonderball? I'm sure the Russians will be excited to enter the game, but I've got plans for their friends in London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Heh, think you did it right by resisting raiding early. Save the subs till after France goes down and your BB's show up. Btw, Spain and Portugal make a very nice base for subs. Gonna dump some mpp in diplo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Hell (Heaven) with Diplo, I'll send in the Stormtroopers. Actually, I have no idea. Maybe Spain will join me if I take London? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Coming Soon! To a Theatre near us! The Killer Thrilla in Godzilla-like 3-D, Big screen, surround-sound Techno-havoc Wreaked @ break neck speeds! Should be a sight to see! :cool: Idaho Hun Kommandant VS The Myth that is Terif! When is that on agenda, BTW? This coming Saturday? Bring it, cracking alley-can Cats, Bring it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Yep, Saturday the battle starts . In SC 1 the first thing my Allies did in every game against Rambo was investing in GLR since he always bought subs and/or carriers, so I am already in practice to battle him at sea . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 All true Americans love the Navy. "Of course I like the Navy, everytime we need to go somewhere, you give us a ride" --- Lt. Kendrick in the absolute movie classic, Few Good Men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Condor Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Hey Sundays are boring i play the winner -> so terif i wait for u. It takes naturals to headcrack machines and i happen to be a natural. The natural vs the machine. :eek: Ah, i can play this Friday too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Great! We need to see how a wrack & ruin naval game Would play out for the whole war. Between two - who Truly know what each naval game piece Is, Or, could be, And not to omit! Whether certain inter-linked aspects are As they should be. IE, how the all-out naval wars "Fit in" with the mostly Land-based WW-2 schematic. :cool: __________________ My uncle was in the Navy. My Old Man got carried By US Navy to all them Little atolls and volcanic rocks All over the Pacific in 'is 3 years in. Almost joined Navy myself, Instead of the Army, But not having Kennedy-kind of pull, They wouldn't promise me Any PBR... "patrol boats, river." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted April 21, 2006 Author Share Posted April 21, 2006 Well, what HR says is true, "HEY! You've got to Hide your Fleet away!" I thought I should protect the Isles, not much use since I cannot get the Americans over anytime soon, those ports really should do a bit more for the defense of a battleship, or Carrier. I tried to counter the sub threat, 3 out 4 subs that I've seen have been reduced to strength 6 by my air mainly... But I cannot finish them off. 3 or 4 hits and no damage from surface fleet... I should've preserved my cruisers somewhere but the threat of SL frightened me. The game has changed dramatically at sea, I am not much of a navyman, I'm more an airforce man. I've not lost one airfleet since I started playing SC2... but they're nolonger Uber alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 The use of navy in SC2 is simple -> shore bombardment, resource pinging (and reducing fortresses), interdicting transports movement over long distances provided they remain hidden, sub hunting. Unable to prevent amphibious invasions left aside it acts as a tile blocker (more obvious near Egypt where proper deployment of RN units may prevent axis' landings east of Alexandria/Suez cuttoff). Liam, there is absolutely no reason to keep many ships near UK shores just to try to fight the super subs Rambo has - you either raise your ASW or you flee - you don't have ASW, you can't fight the subs, you can't prevent the Sealion - send the navy away, it is useless there Or kamikaze them against the ports so gerry can't embark LOL. Against subs it is best to fight them when they run out of supply - you'll be more or less supplied near Canada/Iceland while they won't - if they raid or hunt you down ofc. I wish the landing system was different -either reduced movement, either units having to wait 1 turn prior to hitting the beaches, either costs triples or so. Amphibious invasions are risky endeavours and involve a lot of costs. If they were not like this, Buckingham Palace would be resounding with the highly acclaimed hit of the '40s, 'Deutschland uber alles'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted April 21, 2006 Author Share Posted April 21, 2006 Originally posted by hellraiser: The use of navy in SC2 is simple -> shore bombardment, resource pinging (and reducing fortresses), interdicting transports movement over long distances provided they remain hidden, sub hunting. Unable to prevent amphibious invasions left aside it acts as a tile blocker (more obvious near Egypt where proper deployment of RN units may prevent axis' landings east of Alexandria/Suez cuttoff). Liam, there is absolutely no reason to keep many ships near UK shores just to try to fight the super subs Rambo has - you either raise your ASW or you flee - you don't have ASW, you can't fight the subs, you can't prevent the Sealion - send the navy away, it is useless there Or kamikaze them against the ports so gerry can't embark LOL. Against subs it is best to fight them when they run out of supply - you'll be more or less supplied near Canada/Iceland while they won't - if they raid or hunt you down ofc. I wish the landing system was different -either reduced movement, either units having to wait 1 turn prior to hitting the beaches, either costs triples or so. Amphibious invasions are risky endeavours and involve a lot of costs. If they were not like this, Buckingham Palace would be resounding with the highly acclaimed hit of the '40s, 'Deutschland uber alles'. I finally figured that out HR, a bit late Yes, you're right, Amphibious Invasion Tech seems a must. some way to phaze the ability to being for serious Operations that cost a lot. Germany will easily take England, no stress in it at all. Even Egypt afterwards, UK should retreat to Canada with all her Asian-Indian-African forces recalled to Canada for a second go.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Yes, you're right, Amphibious Invasion Tech seems a must. some way to phaze the ability to being for serious Operations that cost a lot. In a certain sense, Liam, You ALREADY have this, only, In... reverse. Investing, and succeeding, In... Infrastructure Reduces the cost of amphib & transport, Same as with over-land & sea (... for air) Op moves. Since there are fewer MPP's To play around with in SC-2, Comparatively speaking, Then, This SEEMS to work out OK? Not to say there won't be OTHER "Adjustments" made (... nor, to say - that there will) Only that you CAN now make amphib Ops More affordable. Especially relevant For USA and UK when time has arrived For larger invasion schemes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fartknock3r Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Great discussion guys! I need to use this information in my game with Rambo. (i'm allies) I hope i atleast get far into the the game for some real action. P.S. Rambo, im gonna watch you like a hawk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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