1943-1945 Italy: The Forgotten Front.

[ChrisND]

An update folks on the development of the scenario.

The map is nearing completion. Right now Spain and south eastern Europe must be completed. Also, some details like rivers and ports.

Here's a preview: Ignore the unit markers, most are approximate positions.

Sources for the map are Google Earth, Microsoft Atlas, and various WW2 military situation maps from primary source websites (Will be listed in detail with release).

ALL units will be using new bitmaps, here are some samples:

Also, the tile terrain includes "rough terrain" and military bases, and the actual texture themselves has been changed, which I think the ground a more rich, textured, and rumpled appearence. Still a work in progress.

After this scenario is complete I will produce another version of the map stretching from the west coast of the Iberian Peninsula to Tehran, and north/south to accomodate all of North Africa, allowing a full campaign for the Med to be made.

So far the toughest and LONGEST is finding exact unit positions. I'm digging through primary sources for every division's, Wing's, and ship's position in the Med and current status and experience level, for each country. A long process! Italy is particularily troublesome. But the end result is going to be a very accurate starting situation in June 1943.

My sources will be posted when the game is released, they will be a positive boon for those ding their own research, tons of info out there.

Currently the Major Powers are:

UK

Commonwealth/Expeditionary/Free Forces

USA

Germany

Italy

I am debating whether to include Russia's Balkan presence in detail or abstractly.

Allies unit names, positions, and details are 95% complete for land forces. Have not started in detail on their air and sea forces yet.

German land forces are complete, including names, status, position, etc. german sea forces and air forces are also complete.

The Italians are tough to research. But I have a list of all of their units, in the process of tracking down all of their positions. The air force is not done by a long shot, the navy is in good shape, including ports of harbor and damage levels to ships.

Scripting has not been started, but my line of thought is that there will be two major sets of scripts, one that will result in historical unit arrivals/departures and events, and one is more in the flavor of SC 2; random/player decided.

[n0kn0k]

That's awesome!

Also a very wicked map and scale for a Roman Empire Mod!

[Canuck_para]

Great unit icons. Very impressive. Looking forward to it.

[Retributar]

Topic: 1943-1945 Italy: The Forgotten Front.

Normal Dude ... your project looks exciting!, but i have a question for you!.

If this is a MOD dealing with the "war in Italy", then,...why the standard Map?, why-not just one huge map of Italy & Surrounding Landmarks like Sicily, etc, where historical reiforcements [some from the Eastern Front] or withdrawl's of forces [Pulled out of the Italian Campaign to help put out fire's elsewhere] can be simulated to help give that 'ITALIAN CAMPAIGN' feel or reality!.

Also i forgot all the many defensive line's that the German's used, such as the Gothic Line and other's where Axis units could quickly fall-back & reform at, such as fortification's or whatever to give an added defensive bonus to the retreated unit's. With these 'Historical' defensive line's pre-built into the game [if that's practical at all ], this would hopefully make the Italian Campaign have a stronger historical feel!.

Launch the Animation to get a GRAPHIC History on the Italian Campaign!.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/launch_ani_italy_campaign.shtml

Detailed History of the Campaign for Italy:

http://www.naval-history.net/WW2CampaignsItaly.htm

Map of Italy & Surrounding Region: http://www.custermen.com/Maps/MapItalyB.jpg

[ March 09, 2007, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: Retributar ]

[jon_j_rambo]

Bottom line, Normal Dude is a new ICON in the league. The dude writes good scenarios. The Italian front is not forgetten, (see Patton's Legend & the Big Red One!).

Normal Dude also loves his paratroops, and ANZIO landings when playing H2H. He's done it to me several games & has also taken Rome!

[hellraiser]

recognition from THE man himself

ND, drinks'r on you! Pass that J&D bottle, ice and coke...

The map and unit icons look very cool ... GJ ND!!!

[jon_j_rambo]

Normal Dude is a true blue American. I like the way he's addressing this area of the war. Fresh approach & material....outside the typical Bunta worship.

Shipping out that Camp Rambo T-Shirt,

-Legend

[Liam]

I must say if this is anything like the end product, beautiful, please include some strategic level aspect to the game aligned with MPPs on a grand level... I'm Impressed! Best Mod I've seen

[ChrisND]

Thanks for the comments, if anyone has useful info on the Italians BTW it would be a great help.

Retributer:

To address your question of why the map isn't just Italy:

The name is a little misleading I guess. My goal from the beginning was to detail the entire Med, not just Italy. Plus, Italy being an extreme example of a peninsula, it would be impossible to accurately model an operational conflict on it without including the surrounding areas as well. Not to mention, I want the player to have the option of doing what he wants to do, instead of being shackled by history. Thus, the only defensive lines estabilished on map will be those that were present at the beginning of June 1943, the beginning of the scenario.

One problem with following a historical approach with this campaign is that units often transferred between fronts. Many units went to Northern Europe for Overlord, and many naval forces present for Dragoon were only there for a month, just for the invasion. Scripting in it's current form cannot remove units by any means. To that effect players who want it done historically will be able to access a .txt file telling them when to disengage and move out certain units at certain dates. I'm even toying with the idea of creating my own scoring system, that the player would calculate from a .txt file at the end of the game. Points would be given for taking/holding certain locations, losing units, and even for ignoring supreme command orders (such as requesting unit transfer5s for Overlord). I'd then put the formula into a spreadsheet - all the player would do would be to punch in the responses and the spreadsheet coughs out the game result.

Liam,

Totally with you, I am going to try and keep the overall context of the war in this scenario. The Allies will feel the pain if they leave sites in North Africa undefended and let the Germans take them. They will still have convoys to defend. And, especially, units will be MUCH more expensive to replace, and transport around. These are divisions and not pawns! : ) Treat them disrespectfully or shuffle them around too much and the player won't have the resources left to do anything.

There will also be an optional script where the Allied player's MPP flow is use-it-or-lose-it, if the player doesnt make progress the supreme command may start yanking resources aweay for other fronts!

[Retributar]

Normal Dude!... i hope that some of this information will give you a start in what you have requested!.

Italian Armed Forces_OOB_Organization:

http://niehorster.orbat.com/019_italy/__italy.htm

Italian Tankettes_Tanks of WW2_Semovente 75mm:

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-armour/enemy/italian_ww2.htm

World War II - Check/Examine/Scroll Down to_The Mediterranean 1940-1943: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WW2

Italian Armoured Vehicles of WWII:

Click on the 'Tank Type' that you wish to get more information on!.

http://www.onwar.com/tanks/italy/index.htm

[ March 09, 2007, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: Retributar ]

[Konigs]

Excellent, Italian campaign caused many issues for Germany in '43. Drew several powerful units away from other areas at critical times. It was as close to WWI in WWII as you could get. Defense was king and it took real grit from the Allied forces to drive the length of the Boot while secondary to overlord during perparations and after the actual invasion. The Italian campaign also had a profound affect on geopolitical balance after the war. Just my two cents worth, Normal Dude has created a unique scenario in a little used area of WWII, that looks great and is great.

[Hubert Cater]

Wow... that is once again very impressive

For any of you who have not taken a look at some of the other mods Normal Dude has done definitely take a look... his 'The Russians Are Coming' campaign is a complete MOD of SC2 including a custom interface and MAIN SCREEN update... really nice stuff taking full advantage of the Editor and Game Engine.

Hubert

[Blashy]

I really love the map size for this scenario.

And as n0kn0k pointed out, expand the map a few tiles large both ways and you have the perfect building of the Roman Republic into Roman empire period.

[ChrisND]

Updates: I have decided to go ahead and expand the map before the Italian Front scenario is complete. Here is it's present form:

Climate is something that will be very detailed:

The map is mostly dry temperate regions, with some cold/snowy near the north. The drier areas include hot and arid (the Sahara desert, a patch in Spain, southern Middle East), hot and semi-arid (temperate in the game, but with little mud/snow includes parts of Balkans, Sicily, Italy, most of Spain, and Northern French Africa), and moderate/semi arid (Plains northeast of Balkans).

Temperate areas will be distinguished by hot/cool summers and winters, and whether they have droughts or not.

Bitmaps are almost complete:

When I get around to doing a 1940 Scenario for the Med, I will re-do the bitmaps to include winter and desert uniforms(IE Germans will be dressed as Afrika Korps in desert tiles).

[Retributar]

A considerable effort 'all-in-all'...no less!. It's mindboggling to think of what work was involved to get as far as you have with this!.

We keep watching your progress with continued interest!.

[n0kn0k]

Agreed, this must have been a whole lot of work

Very nice!

[Blashy]

The map size is fantastic.

I will test this mod for you, it certainly deserves it.

n0kn0k, you`re not supposed to be here, you are supposed to be working on your Roman Empire mod.

NOTE: I hate that I suck at modding. I would do a WW1 mod asap.

[Joost]

Nice work! i can't wait to play this mod!

will there be artillery or rockets? i love artillery but mostly the artillery can schoot with a range which is ridicules!(if research is done...)

keep up the good work!

[ChrisND]

Update: Finished the Iberian Peninsula's terrain, and have placed the Spanish Army and Air Force.

As far as arty/rockets goes, my current line of thought is that artillery formations are still better represented abstractly throught the Infantry Weapons tech. They would take up too much room otherwise.

Instead, I am probably going to use the slot to represent very large guns like naval batteries and railway guns. This gives more options to the Med naval battles and should make things quite interesting, especially once the 1940 scenario is available and players can invest in them to control island regions.

Currently I am envisioning a battle pack making use of this map:

1. June 1940: Italy enters the war.

2. June 1943: Operation Husky (Or player's choice of invasion site).

3. 1944: Allied invasion of Iberian Peninsula, instead of Normandy.

4. 1945: Late-start WW2, with German Z Plan, better Italian forces.

After the 1943 is complete, the 1940 would be my next priority.

Currently any modern-day or semi-modern mods with this map would be unfeasible with the 25-tile limit.

[n0kn0k]

n0kn0k, you`re not supposed to be here, you are supposed to be working on your Roman Empire mod.

Actually i'm gonna have a LAN here today with friends.

Playing some games like "Star Trek: Birth of the Federation",

"Star Wars Rebellion" and "Making History: The Calm and The Storm".

All turnbased games

[ChrisND]

Update: Currently finished modeling Egypt, pushing the map frther east.

Also folks, the time for scripting is coming soon, pleae post your requests for features you would like to see implemented.

[ March 17, 2007, 11:41 PM: Message edited by: Normal Dude ]

[Kuniworth]

Well some requests:

* Greek partisans should be really strong in 1945.

* Albanian and Tito partisans would be good.

* State of Croatia I would like too see.

* Dont forget Turkey joining allies in 1945.

[ChrisND]

Map so far:

[Retributar]

I've got to agree with Blashy!, "The Map Size is Fantastic!"

I didn't notice at first how really large it is!!!. WoW!!!,...this will be the ' Mother ' of all Maps!.

Im really expecting/hoping that a larger map will improve Game-Play!.

[n0kn0k]

Also folks, the time for scripting is coming soon, pleae post your requests for features you would like to see implemented.

I'd love to see Italy capitulate as they historically did. Then germany taking over.

I'd also love to see Italian resistance after they capitulate at a certain point.