1943-1945 Italy: The Forgotten Front.

[ChrisND]

Kuniworth:

I plan on modeling the partisan activity in the Balkans as accurately and variably as the game engine will allow. In addition, their activity will increase substantially if the German player tries to move garrison troops out of the region, and will also increase exponentially if partisans win victories, or if the Allies to decide to attack the Germans at the Balkans instead of Italy.

State of Croatia is already modeled.

noknok

I hope to make Italy be able to capitulate as they did historically, along with variability scripts for variety. We will have to see if the editor will allow it though.

[Retributar]

Original Quote by... Normal Dude

I hope to make Italy be able to capitulate as they did historically, along with variability scripts for variety. We will have to see if the editor will allow it though

If the 'Editor'...is 'Limited', then this is where we could use ' Huberts ' assistance to hopefully make the requested change's.

This...and other fixes would be a positive direction for being able to increase the 'Realism' & 'Historicity' of these MOD's.

[ChrisND]

Update:

Added Bulgarian forces, although I can't trust the info as there was a big difference between force on paper and actual existing. Will have to double-check.

Added Hungarian forces, known to be accurate.

Finished Italian navy placements.

Added American USAAF units and ID'd all unit names, but they need to be placed.

Finished British navy, with all ship names and possible names that could be transferred.

Ditto with US Navy.

Did more mapwork, finished Balkans, starting on Turkey.

Added Portugal forces.

Also, starting the nuts and bolts of the units:

- Aircraft ranges and ship speeds will be based on the actual combat radius's (aircraft) and cruise speeds (ships). For units with mixed models and/or builds, a weighted average of the types present will be used to determine the composite range/speed of the entire unit.

- The land unit scale is brigade and division sized elements, with some smaller units lumped together into "composite" brigades. Armored units will be division sized. Brigade sized units may be present as starting strength "3", but most, along with AT units and tank destroyers, will be abstractly represented as AT Tech. The scale of the map was chosen by examining maps of the Italian Front and finding the average front that a division sized unit held, and then using that to represent one tile.

- Generals, corps sized onwards, are represented as the HQs, and their ratings are based by examining summary biographies of their achievements.

- Air unit are tougher to group, but for now American Wings (Or three Groups) represent one unit, and German Geschwader (or three Wings) represents one unit.

- Naval unit sizes:

This is subject to change: For now, 5-10 submarines depending on the nation represent one unit, one BB equals one unit, one carrier represents one unit, and one-three CA/CL cruisers represents one unit.

[ March 21, 2007, 03:16 AM: Message edited by: Normal Dude ]

[Retributar]

Normal Dude

It's good to see that you are doing some 'Heavy Duty' practical research for this MOD!.

Were looking forward very much to trying out this new expanded Map which will have more maneuvering room as well as to also be able to get a better feel for the scale and size of this Mediterranean effort!.

[ChrisND]

Update: At the moment, scripting for Italy to surrender as they did historically is pretty much impossible with the current scripting options. There is no way to spontaneously make a country surrender other than it's capital being occupied, and moving the capital around does not help because it limits the possibilites; all of the action would be centered around that point(s). For example, I could just set their capital to be a southern city, but then if the Allies chose to attack Sardinia and then Rome (which was an option considered by the Allies), then Italy wouldn't surrender even with Rome captured.

I guess this scenario is now being downgraded to "semi-historical". The Italians will fight it out all the way to Rome.

[ March 21, 2007, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: Normal Dude ]

[ChrisND]

Update:

Added the Croatian forces.

Made modifications on the Bulgarian forces.

Found fairly detailed info on Italian occupation forces in Vichy France, Balkans, Slovenia, Montenegro, Albania, and Greece. May not be completely accurate, but it works. Thus, the Italian army is now placed, except for home country defenses.

Started on the Turkish military. I didn't know they had squadrons with both FW 190s and Spitfires flying together. Kinda ironic.

I've decided that for the Italy surrender problem, Italy will now occupy two Major nation slots. One will be Fascist Italy. One will be Allied Italy, and will be activated upon Fascist Italy's surrender. I'm still trying to figure out how to make Fascit Italy possibly surrender as soon as Allied troops violate the main peninsula. Hubert, any ideas?

As far as the Russians go, this will be tricky. I want to include them as little as possible, because that would be drawing the focus away from where I want it to be. The Russians will be represented by a Minor country, and I am going to tie their power to how many troops the Axis player keeps stationed in the Balkans. If the Axis player pulls troops out, Russians will get more troops. If the Axis try to attack the Russians, the Russians get more troops. The tricky part will be balancing their army strength to the point where they can make the gains they did in WW2, but without over-riding the game. I wish I could just have them take territory by the TERRITORY EVENT, but that script is only activated by date.

[Joost]

Seems to be a great mod ND! Did you make a final decision with the rockets? will it be artillery or will it be your new anti-naval placements?

I'll look forward to play your mod!

[PzKpfwIII]

Originally posted by Normal Dude:

Kuniworth:

I plan on modeling the partisan activity in the Balkans as accurately and variably as the game engine will allow. In addition, their activity will increase substantially if the German player tries to move garrison troops out of the region, and will also increase exponentially if partisans win victories, or if the Allies to decide to attack the Germans at the Balkans instead of Italy.

State of Croatia is already modeled.

Will there be any way to indicate the type or composition of German forces? I was under the impression that SS troops such as the Prinz Eugen serving in Yugoslavia were more ruthless than even the Wehrmacht troops, who were certainly no angels when it came to anti-partisan warfare.

[ChrisND]

Joost -

I have decided that artillery will be incorporated into Infantry Weapons tech - the amount of artillery units present would clutter the map too much and just get in the way.

Instead the rocket's slot will be represented by various high-level weapons, depending on the country slot - For Italy, it will represent large coastal batteries. For Germany, it will represent the V1/V2 technology and massive rail guns (represented in another country slot).

Also, each side will possess one Minor country slot for "Special Units". These will be unique units with unique uses that can be purchased and used at the player's discretion.

PzKpfw:

Unforunetely no, the PARTISAN scripts do discriminate between the occupying unit types. BUT, there are other scripts, namely SUPPLY scripts, that do. So the lower the combat effectiveness of the occuyping force in a city, the higher chances of it's supply levels being reduced.

Also, I am planning on creating the partisan units to be just strong enough to badly damage say a lone HQ or air group, so that should discourage players from garrisoning without combat units.

[Joost]

Any news ND? do you have a relaese date in mind? keep up the good work!

[ChrisND]

Work is still very much in progress, right now I'm researching, and that's quite a lengthy process, especially when I have only free sources to work from.

It's going to be quite some time before it is ready, but it will be worth it.

[Retributar]

"STICK & STAY & MAKE IT PAY!!!"

[ChrisND]

Update:

Still working hard folks in the research phase, I want this to be exactly accurate.

I have been in the process of re-vamping the map, going tile-by-tile to ensure that every proportion and distance is correct. The map is 252 x 88, stretching from the Azores to Tehran.

Also, research material has been much easier to find on June 10 1940 force dispositions, so it appears this scenario will be ready first. Concurrent or later releases will include: 1941 Greece and Balkans invasion; November 1942 Operation Torch; 1943 Operation Husky; 1944 Allied Invasion of Spain.

Currently re-vamping the sprites as well. They will be even better than the ones posted in this thread.

Other outstanding surprises are in store, this will be nice folks.

[Retributar]

Original Quote by Normal Dude:

Other outstanding surprises are in store, this will be nice folks.

Reminicient Phrase Usage by "Ren & Stimpy!".

" Happy!...Happy!...Joy!...Joy !".

[ChrisND]

Research is still in full swing.

[ June 02, 2007, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: Normal Dude ]

[Canuck_TAR]

Looking good.

[ChrisND]

Just wanted to let you folks know, this is still in development, and it is being built with the expansion Weapons and Warfare. It will only be available as an expansion version.

[Joost]

And that will be in a few months?

[ChrisND]

Hubert will have to answer that, I don't want to accidentely violate my NDA by talking too much.

[ June 01, 2007, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: Normal Dude ]

[targul]

I normally have little interest in these small theaters of operation but your other works make me anxious to give this one a try also.

[Retributar]

Im extremely anxious...to try out the "Medeterranean Theatre' " as well as the Airborne Invasion of Crete [kreta],...or even specifically..."The Battle For Italy" [Which on a very large map...would be ever so cool!!!_This should include all of the 'Historical' reinforcement's as well as withdrawl's which were for the Eastern Front [including all of the Historical Defensive Lines used to slow down the Allied advance] as well as perhap's emergency reinforcement's that were sent to Europe (IE: Normandy Invasion)!.],...and or even some full scale recreation's of the Desert Fox's exploit's in North-Afrika!.

[ChrisND]

Originally posted by targul:

I normally have little interest in these small theaters of operation but your other works make me anxious to give this one a try also.

Well you'll be happy to know that I will be updating all of my previous works for the expansion. Maybe not very soon, since I have my hands full with this monster, but I will be. And some of the scenarios (Like The Russians Are Coming! and Fall Weserunbung) will finally be able to function as I had originally wanted them to.

The 1989 Fulda Gap scenario will now also be possible with the expansion.

And a bunch of other stuff.

[ChrisND]

Originally posted by Retributar:

Im extremely anxious...to try out the "Medeterranean Theatre' " as well as the Airborne Invasion of Crete [kreta],...or even specifically..."The Battle For Italy" [Which on a very large map...would be ever so cool!!!_This should include all of the 'Historical' reinforcement's as well as withdrawl's which were for the Eastern Front [including all of the Historical Defensive Lines used to slow down the Allied advance] as well as perhap's emergency reinforcement's that were sent to Europe (IE: Normandy Invasion)!.],...and or even some full scale recreation's of the Desert Fox's exploit's in North-Afrika!.

It is also worth mentioning that I have decided to start the campaign on 25 June 1940, so that the player may experience the full variety and richness of the med theater from it's many different perspectives. Future scenarios will push this timeline further like the standard 1939 scenario was: 1941 Balkans, El Alamein, 1942 Torch, 1943 Husky, and a bonus 1944 hypothetical Allied invasion of Spain.

I will have pleanty of optional unit historical scripts involved, but the very fast rate at which units transferred in and out of the theater theater makes a real gameplay mess; so players who want to simulate historic unit transfers will be provided with a .txt file telling them when to Disband or "send off" certain units if they so desire.

(Either way it will be balanced).

[targul]

Sounds awesome. Never seen anything close to that. None of the old SPI titles or AVH titles did the whole theater in detail so should be very interesting.

Having played Campaign in North Africa by SPI many times I really appreciate the Med.

[Blashy]

Yep I am really looking forward to this mod and hopefully n0kn0k one day has enough time to do his Roman Empire mod he started, that one looks awesome as well, incredible sprites.