The Wargamer First Impressions

[saur_kraut]

The Wargamer has posted a first impression article on SC2. Get it here:

http://www.wargamer.com/reviews/strategic_command_2_firstimpressions/

Very nice article!

[Retributar]

Yes!!!...Accolades to ' Hubert Cater'!!!.

[Blashy]

Too bad he was not more informative about the editor.

When he says make your own game, he should be specific about make your own game, whatever ERA in time and wherever in time.

Good article, well written.

[sandy]

Just downloaded and tried the demo.

Very disappointed - non-intuitive interface, obscure unlabelled buttons, graphics glitches all over map, unable to play despite being an SC1 vet, unable to quit - had to use the task manager - UGH!!!

Sorry that I pre-ordered, when will I learn!

[Ronn]

Same to me ...

- Can't see the hole picture like in SC1

- Worldmap useless, if I can't klick and go to position like in Panzer General ...

- No scroll funktion on mouse-Button or WASD

- To much to scroll ...

- SC1 was genius in terms of USABILITY

In SC2 I have to press much more keys and have to do much more scolling and get much lesser information.

Sorry, deletet the game

Good luck with this ...

[Moon]

sandy, the buttons are labelled, the label appears on top of the upper screen margin when you mouse-over a button. It's really hard to miss. Your other comments are too unspecific, so I can't really say much except that I am not a SC1 vet but I have no problems playing it without the help of the manual... the base gameplay isn't all that different, and the mouse still has two buttons

Ronn, 3 out of 4 points you listed have to do with scrolling. You are playing on the lowest resolution setting it seems. As the maps have become bigger in SC2 than they were in SC1, obviously you have to scroll more. The medium and high resolution settings help a lot in this regard. Maybe Hubert will be able to code in a zoom feature as a patch.

You can click on the minimap and the map view jumps to that position, so I am not sure what you mean with "can't click and go to position". I played PG but it's so long ago I have forgotten if there it did anything specific that SC2 doesn't do.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. Sorry that it's not your cup of tea...

Martin

[saur_kraut]

Ronn & Sandy, not to be ugly, but are you guys from a different planet? :eek:

I had no problems running the demo and enjoyed it very much. Too much to scroll? Bah! It's a shame you guys don't like it... :confused: You're missing out on a great/fun WWII strategy game... Oh well, we all have our own taste I suppose...

[ April 05, 2006, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: saur_kraut ]

[Blashy]

Over 75% of the things they posted were not in the game ARE in the game.

This is not giving the game a chance, its not giving themselves a chance. Hehe.

[Guest Mike]

Most WW2 strategy games are good for teh strategy - the subject matter is well known and it is difficult to get wrong IMO. thereh ave been good games for 20 years or more now.

So SC2 simply does not stand out in that category sorry.

I agree with the 2 posters - I eventualy found the button labels, but why are they not beside the buttong? Why are the buttons so bl**dy small? Why can't the map zoom?? (And I'm on 1200x1000 or so which is as much as my card allowed me to be), why doesn't a click on the world map take me to that point in the detail map?

All theese things are basic interface features that games have had for ages for good reasons.

[mustang96]

Sorry i don't understand why your complaining? The game is great, it reminds me alot of pg2. So what if you have to push alot of buttons or scroll alot? I'm loving this game!

[Canuck]

I had no problem finding the quit button. Maybe you should go back to computer school sandy

[saur_kraut]

I agree with the 2 posters - I eventualy found the button labels, but why are they not beside the buttong? Why are the buttons so bl**dy small? Why can't the map zoom?? (And I'm on 1200x1000 or so which is as much as my card allowed me to be), why doesn't a click on the world map take me to that point in the detail map?

I have no problem with the button description on the top bar. Small buttons, well, I don't have a problem there either, maybe cause I'm running the game on a 24" monitor... Maybe crank your resolution back down to 1024x768? Just curious, why do you need to zoom? :confused: I click on the world map at the bottom and it does take me to the point on the detail map...

I'm not trying to start a debate war, you guys just seem a little picky that's all... Peace!

[ April 05, 2006, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: saur_kraut ]

[Hubert Cater]

Most WW2 strategy games are good for teh strategy - the subject matter is well known and it is difficult to get wrong IMO. thereh ave been good games for 20 years or more now.

So SC2 simply does not stand out in that category sorry.

To be honest it is a little surprising to hear such a final assessment based on the demo especially since the enhancements offer much more strategic depth than SC1 ever did. Granted, this might not so readily apparent based on reviewing the Demo but as mentioned in the other thread, I would strongly encourage you to review the manual and in the worst case wait for the assessment of the full game play (once it is shipping) by the player community.

I agree with the 2 posters - I eventualy found the button labels, but why are they not beside the buttong? Why are the buttons so bl**dy small?

One of the complaints with SC1 was that the interface took up way too much space away from the game map... so in turn we tried to maximize the play area as much as possible.

While it would have been nice to include menu button pop ups right from the start, with everything else that needed to be done, we felt that the menu descriptions in the top middle of the screen as well as by using unique buttons that this would be sufficient especially since it was felt this would just be an option most players would disable after a few tries.

[Guest Mike]

See - you can't please all of the people all of the time!

Where did I say I had made a "final assessment"?? This thread is titled "First Impressions" afterall, and that's what I'm giving.

I _shall_ play the demo some more, but my _first impressions_ were a bit underwhelming.

[Hubert Cater]

Lol... true you never said the exact words "final assessment" but you have to admit your statement relative to the overall strategic play did come across as pretty final

Equally, I have no problems at all with having your own opinion on the game and if it is not your cup of tea I understand there is nothing I can do about that... just saying that I *think* you might not have the full picture, because the demo is only 6 months, just yet.

[ April 05, 2006, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: Hubert Cater ]

[Retributar]

As ive mentioned several times before...i really didn't have any problem with any part of the game...other than getting used to the functions of the buttons!.

I didn't think the buttons were too small!.

I liked the extra screen space!,...NOW!,...perhaps at high resolution levels,...the buttons might look small, i really don't know!.

If that is so!,...then, perhap's...this problem can be worked on to rectify that result so that player's can see their buttons at higher resolution levels?.

[Moon]

Originally posted by Stalin's Organist:

See - you can't please all of the people all of the time!

Where did I say I had made a "final assessment"?? This thread is titled "First Impressions" afterall, and that's what I'm giving.

I _shall_ play the demo some more, but my _first impressions_ were a bit underwhelming.

So far we've really seen "first impressons" all over the place. "Too similar to SC1" vs "not similar enough". "Sharp graphics" vs "blurry graphics". "Beautiful graphics" vs "too beautiful graphcs". "Easy to get into when you know SC1" vs "what are all those buttons?"

Considering how evenly distributed reactions are, I'd say Hubert has hit the sweet spot right in the middle

First impressions are important of course (it's why you see all glitzy games these days, looking good until you play them), but since we're making intelligent strategy games for intelligent people and not FPS or RTS Clones where 99% of the budget goes into marketing and graphics, I guess I personally care more about good second impressions.

And here SC2 has a lot to offer. It is, of course, still Strategic Command, and not some other game. Hence the similiarities to SC1. It would be kind of odd if SC2 played like, uh, Axis&Allies suddenly

Martin

[sandy]

I also posted first impressions only - but they were so bad that I stopped trying and went to bed - not what one would hope for for an eargerly awaited demo!

I DO hope that the demo and game will improve with time and effort.

BUT - first impressions are important, and sadly the interface (NOT the game, becase the interface stopped me getting to the game) is a big step backwards, and gave me a very bad first impression.

Graphics glitches refers to patches of white squares all over the map, obscuring terrain, but not units - using a recent Toshiba tecra laptop

[Moon]

sandy, maybe your interface issues are related to the graphics issues, because I simply find it hard to believe that having 8 buttons with pretty clear defined symbols and a text description on top of the screen is causing you troubles.

Martin

[SMG42]

Being one of the lucky fews which have the full game (press privilege, but I'm not from the wargamer), I must say that SC2 is a darn addictive game, with a lot more of options compared to SC1. I can also say that I never experimented a CTD, which speak about the game excellent stability. Just reinstall your HOI or HOI2 copy (1.00), and all the sudden you put things in perspective.

There is some minor annoying things, but frankly for a 1.00 game I'm impressed. The graphics are perhaps not top notch (the map, as the 3D icons are nice), but frankly I don't care at all. How many strategic games on WW2 do we have out?

HoI2: a monster with a bad AI

WaW: a good one, but 3 months a turn and 3 regions for Germany is a bit too high a level for me.

WitP: A monstrous monster game, where you need several months to finish a game.

Ok, what's next? SC2. Perhaps not the game that will "end all games" on WW2, but as of now, this is my prefered.

[ April 06, 2006, 04:04 AM: Message edited by: SMG42 ]

[Blashy]

Originally posted by SMG42:

Perhaps not the game that will "end all games" on WW2

With the editor it just might :eek:

[GrognardFortyPlus]

Originally posted by sandy:

Very disappointed - non-intuitive interface, obscure unlabelled button

There are those who demand better user interfaces and there are apologists. Sandy, don't get discouraged by the apologists. You are dead on in your interface assessment. Everyone defending the interface...well...they are apologists...and perhaps a wee bit insane (read more)

Now, to be fair to Hubert, he is not in the minority when it comes to these things. This is par for the course for development efforts such as this. As for the apologists, they are par for the course as well. They can't see it, and it will take years (if ever) to bring them to the light. The more technical background a person has have, the more they are blinded by it.

Two good books to read will pretty much sum it up, both by Alan Cooper.

"The Inmates are Running the Asylum"

"About Face: The Essentials of User Interface Design".

If you are not technically inclinded, read the Inmate book. It will all make sense. Those who do programming, read the Interface book.

Sandy, I have an MSEE and have written my share of computer programs. I am now 42 years old. I was an inmate most of my life...and yes, I was running the asylum. RTFM was my mantra. I had little patience with those who would not "scale the interface mountain" to the nirvana of enlightenment. Keep in mind, geeky types actually LIKE the gizmos, and cannot fathom why there are those who would find fault with such a masterpiece. I finally escaped that asylym in my late 30s, thanks to Mr. Cooper. But I live with them everyday.

Read the books, everyone. Sandy, you will be vindicated. Everyone else....you will either see the light and escape...or, as the saying goes, in order for an insane person to become sane they must be sane.

Having said all that, I will regress into my insanity for a moment and note that given the target audience includes a good share of the technically inclined grognard elite, I suspect there will be a fair share of apoligists playing this game. If that's the target audience, then at end of day, perhaps the interface is fine. Inmates don't mind banging their head on the padded cell of the interface.

Even this escaped inmate may sneak back into the asylum, and subject myself to the self-inflict interface pain....because if I bang my head really really hard....I'll eventually get the drugs (get into the game) that makes the pain all the worth while....yea....maybe even enjoyable.

-Signed-

GrognardFortyPlus

Escaped Inmate

[Sombra]

IMHO the interface works fine. I don´t think its to hard to remember the meaning of 5-10 symbols.

Still there are some things I would like to see improved from my point of view:

- A short key or command to set a unit to permament guard modus (If I don´t want to cycle through all the units again and again) + a wake up all key

- I would like that the "text" at the top of the screen is slighly larger (quite hard to read at 1280 + 1024) (combat estimates)

- When a unit is build and a I click ok it would be nice if the area is shown where the unit can be put (example in the demo is: playing allies ship are finished in Canada but you have to look scoll yourself to the ports)

-It would be nice if you could define yourself for every choice from the right click scenario a shortkey yourself => Paratroopers prepare => key p ; operate =S Shortkey => O etc.)

Regarding glitches: Have you tried to download the galciv2 demo? Advantage is when started it automatically creates a debug.er which tells you a lot about your system. I think its a safe bet to guess that 90% of glitches are due to old drivers; low vitual memory, old direct x etc.

[Capt Andrew]

I thought it was interesting that the Wargamer mentioned something that has been overlooked with most "first impressions" posted... that the MAJORITY of changes/upgrades that are in place with SC2 are a direct result of the gaming community (US!).

I thought it was a nice write-up. And I also have had no problems with the interface. But of course, I tinkered and played with the Demo a few times without issuing an opinion. I also went and RTFM. Just because I don't have any problems with the interface, doesn't make me an apologist! (Thank you HC for implementing so many user opinions on this from SC1!) And I don't have to read a book on interface design to know that I like it. (Sounds like a used car salespitch to me: "But I don't want to drive a stick shift!" "Oh yes you do, read this book and you'll understand how ignorant you are and why you really do want a stick shift.")

[Ike99]

@GrognardFortyPlus

I must say I found your post..."captivating"

However I can think of several games quickly that had painful interfaces yet the gameplay made it worthwhile. PTO2 comes to mind quickly as a classic example.

Some of the buttons in SC2 where small for this old person but I wouldn't describe the interface as painful.