Quenaelin Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Here is my opinion about this game, this game is otherwise very good but I am somehow still playing CMBO more often than CMBB, becouse I don't like very much of these new "features" in this game. I bought this game , becouse it has Finns and it has little bit better graphics than in CMBO. I didn't expect to get those few new features (more waypoints more pause and infantry is tired very fast) which are making this game unrealistic and unplayable, I wish I could somehow disable them. There should be option to "play only with CMBO features". CMBB + Finns are included. + better graphics +/- lots of new features. - waypoint pause penalty, very unrealistic especially with the tanks. - infantry is tiring and exthausting too fast, no real soldier will get so tired after running couple of hundred meters :mad: - just too few countries, there is only one Allied country included. - this same game engine should be able to run CMBO scenarios also. CMBO + has much faster gameplay, soldiers are actually running :eek: + you can use as much waypoints as necessary. + more countries - old graphics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 well, you're entitled to you opinion, but I don't understand why it is a game fault per se that only a few allied countries are in it (not just one). Romania and Russia are the first two I can think of (I'm inexperienced at the game still). As for the troop movements, I honestly think it's realistic and makes the agme very fun and challenging. You WOULD get tired after 200-300 meters of running in gear under fire or through rough terrain, trust me. It's easy to be an armchair warrior but when you get tossed inot the **** and the fans on high let me tell ya I reckon you'd be dancing the dance and fanning the flames on your ass as you ran back to the closest fox-hole(me too!). IMO the ONLY fix that is presing is the sneak command. It should not be triggered so easily and it should not be so tiring, I agree. But they are fixing this!! Give them your soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Q: Try loading a backpack with 30 pounds of rocks, grab a full-sized hunting rifle with a wood stock, etc. Then sprint 300 yards and see how you feel. For realisim have someone get one of those tennis ball throwing machines to intermittently hurl 100 mph serves at you. WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 wwwb - don't bother. Been around that block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDog Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Well you're right, there's nothing tiring about running a few hundred meters. Oh, wait! That's not what those movement commands represent. They represent movement by rushes, which is very tiring, especially when under fire. Rushing involves individuals(or squad sub-units) getting up from a prone possition, running several meters and then plowing into the ground at close to full speed in an effort to get to cover before being shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolloff Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 I´d like to know why you find the more waypoints = more delay function to be unrealistic. The more complicated the order gets, the longer the unit needs to "get it" and execute it. AFAIK it´s also in there to portray differences in tactics/"mentality" and communications equipment. Personally I feel it does pretty well what it is supposed to achieve e.g. more realism in the context of the Eastern Front. Best regards, Nolloff [ November 18, 2002, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: Nolloff ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 To at least be fair, if you are plotting a move down a winding road, does the tank driver really need to stop and ask the TC "should I follow this bend or just plow on ahead?" at every turn of the road? On the other hand, slow everything down, only plot a few moves and it all works perfectly well together. Who cares if the tank has a few second pause after going around a few bends. Maybe the gear shifter is causing him problems. CMBB has more nationalities. And finally, THERE ARE NO FREAKING BACKPACKS ON THE TROOPS! Troops don't and never did go into battle with full kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Panzer leaders got a good point about the packs, but I deer hunt using my rifles from my WWII collection, and even without the packs a 100 yard dash with the 8 to 9lb rifle and the little gear I do carry would kill the crap outa me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Yeah, I just want people to be clear and not use exageration and hyperbole, that's all. I have no opinion on tirng, except... I hate it when my troops gointo AUT-SNEAK-AUTO-EXHAUST mode and are then useful for the rest of the battle. It irks me. Other than that, I guess I don't mind tiring, oh except just maybe advance is a bit too tiring, and sneak definitely is. Except for that though, well.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Panzer Leader, when I refer to "Battle Gear" I am referring to the rifle (8-9 lbs?), extra ammo (maybe 4 lbs?), water(1.5 lbs maybe, the typical belt, compass, knife, whatever they carried. But they certainly did go into combat with more than a rifle. I agree about the auto-sneak-auto-exhaust though. But I think some people need a serious reality check in terms of how tiring combat is when you factor in weight and fear (and maybe even poor nutrition, extreme cold, mud, snow, etc). I'm so glad BF put these things in the game because it makes me look at every aspect before plotting movements or giving other orders. This is why it takes me about 30 min to take a turn. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrivateTom Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Don't forget about your boots, ever try and run in them, not so easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generale_Pasquini Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 To few countries??? Oh yea, we forgot China, Japan, United States, Britain, Byzantine Empire, and Crimea... since they all fought in the Eastern front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nippy Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 CM:BO + more countries Yep, there were Americans with Sherman tanks, Brits with Sherman tanks, Free French with Sherman tanks, Free Polish with Sherman tanks, Canadian troops with Sherman tanks... - just too few countries, there is only one Allied country included. CM:BO - just too few countries, there is only one Axis country included. Oh, and Heavy Machineguns no longer cause enemy infantry to fall over laughing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Originally posted by Nippy: Oh, and Heavy Machineguns no longer cause enemy infantry to fall over laughing.Was this really a problem? I never played CMBO. LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screeny Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 He guys, Give this guy Quenaelina break, he is going through a face. On Oprah they call it denial or so. Once upon a time he started playing CMBO and kept loosing. So he practised and practised, untill one day.....he won, and he started winning more even against human players, with fast and daring rushes towards the flags....he was thinking tjeeeee!!! I'm good I'm Rommel re-incarnated...and now in CMBB he has too start all over again........................ gr Screeny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Radley Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 I hate it when I go through a face... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Originally posted by Panzer Leader: I hate it when my troops gointo AUT-SNEAK-AUTO-EXHAUST mode and are then useful for the rest of the battle. It irks me.Yeah I hate it when my troops are USEFUL for the rest of the battle, too. It slows down the rate at which I loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Originally posted by Boo_Radley: I hate it when I go through a face... Keep trying, perhaps you'll find one that won't frighten little children. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 I don't know how many more "lose" vs "loose" errors I can take :mad: [ November 18, 2002, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: MasterGoodale ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke of Earl Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Originally posted by wwb_99: Try loading a backpack with 30 pounds of rocks, grab a full-sized hunting rifle with a wood stock, etc. Then sprint 300 yards and see how you feel...Personally speaking, I would probably have the troops drop packs somewhere before conducting an advance or assault... stuff extra ammo in their pockets, etc.... just to lighten the load a bit... but, that's just me... Cordialement, Duke of Earl [ November 18, 2002, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: Duke of Earl ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Some answers/comments to Quenaelin: ...(snip)... - waypoint pause penalty, very unrealistic especially with the tanks. Well, the command delay system is an abstraction, and as such of course not entirely realistic, especially for people who like to use a lot of waypoints to micromanage their movements, and are now faced with high delay times. But - overall the C&C system works very well and just as intended - the more complicated orders you want to give to your units (be it in the shoes of an infantry platoon commander or a tank commander shouting orders to his driver), the more penalty you will get for this. The main idea behind this is to encourage "slower" play. Try less in the 60 seconds of a game turn. It will pay off on many levels... - infantry is tiring and exthausting too fast, no real soldier will get so tired after running couple of hundred meters :mad: EVERYBODY will get tired after running a couple of hundred meters, but depending on how trained somebody is, he will take 10 seconds or 5 minutes to recover breath and move on. I personally don't get the entire "units tire too quickly" to be honest - from the books I read I have heard that "exhausted troops" were seen on a typical WWII battlefield once or twice during the war You need to do two simple things to "master" CMBB - let your units pause once in a while for a whole turn or even two to catch breath, and you need to learn to use tired and exhausted troops; not everybody on the battlefield had the luxury of waiting to become "rested" before storming on... - just too few countries, there is only one Allied country included. You mean Russia, Poland and Romania? - this same game engine should be able to run CMBO scenarios also. If it was so easy, we'd have done it. CMBO: + has much faster gameplay, soldiers are actually running Yep, like robots sometimes. In 15 minutes, they cover 1000 meters, blasting their enemy out of their foxholes and overrunning whole towns. You wonder why the whole war took 6 years... + you can use as much waypoints as necessary. Yep, there is no difference between a quick order "RUUUN!" and "move 10 meters heading 224, then turn left and move for 24 meters, then..." + more countries CMBB has eight countries (Germany, Russia, Poland, Finland, Romania, Hungaria, Poland, Italy) vs the six from CMBO (Germany, US, UK, Poland, French and Canadian). - old graphics Cannot dispute that Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGoodale Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 THE GRAPHICS ARE AWESOME SO STOP SAYING THAT!!!! Ok, I'm sorry, sometimes I get a little defensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Originally posted by MasterGoodale: I don't know how many more "lose" vs "loose" errors I can take :mad: That was quite intentional, as P.L. started the lose vs. loose thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchildstein (ii) Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 Originally posted by MasterGoodale: I don't know how many more "lose" vs "loose" errors I can take :mad: as long as you don't loose phase... seriously, yes there is somefink out of kilter with sneak and it is annoying when the ai changes my troops' orders to the same... so while i wait for the patch... when playing cmbb i check every turn to see which units have been switched to sneak and erase those orders and give them something else... as the czar of group moves i would also ask (half in jest), 'how many phreaking waypoints does a person need?' anyway... while sneak is somewhat broken i just use move and fast for ground troops... maybe assault, advance, or follow vehicle here and there but mostly move and fast... the scenarios i play usually involve between 1 and 2 companies of ground troops, backed by extra support weapons... then topped off with however many dozen vehicles are called for... it seems to me that, "THIS GAME ROCKS!" compared to cmbo.... but i'm an eastern front grog at heart and the weak MGs of cmbo really bugged me... one thing about cmbo is that, every scenario has a 'fatalistic' sense about it in that the war is already over... cmbb offers the chance to 're-enact' scenarios where the outcome of the war was still in question... and it gives the grog a chance to play in 'fatalistic' situations too.... ...and i haven't even yet played as germans in '41 or as anyone in any other year... in other words the potential number of interesting scenarios available in cmbb must be geometrically increased over what was possible in cmbo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadHunter Posted November 18, 2002 Share Posted November 18, 2002 I've been an infantry officer, and trust me, the command delay system isn't too unrealistic! Even a "simple" order can be time consuming if you want to make sure a soldier under pressure gets it done right the first time. I had to spend much longer than 15 seconds explaining to a Corporal and a PFC the proper way to guard a gate in the winter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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