Would you like to see the Maus in CM:BB?

[Scipio]

Originally posted by Mattias:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Scipio:

but it was long enough on the front to be known as Tigerkiller.

Where did you pick this up Scipio?

M.</font>

[Panzer Leader]

The players won't buy it because it's too expensive and clumsy and those into history will have one single scenario to play with called "Pretty much pointless defence at Kümmersdorf".

That would be a prety fun scenario though! I guess there is a great debate among the grogs whether the one operational Maus ever saw combat. Facts:

1.)One was fully built and combat ready.

2.)It was found destroyed with its turret blown.

3.)The hull contained numerous shell-hits (non-penetrating)

Now, I believe (but don't know for sure) that there was no ammo loaded in the Maus when it was discovered, but the gun had been fired. Maus-lovers say the ammo was expended in combat, Maus-haters sayt it was during testing.

The blown turret, Maus-lovers say it was blown by the crew after expending their ammo, Maus-haters say it was blown to prevent the Soviets from taking it intact.

Shell holes: Maus-lovers say "Combat!" Maus-haters reply "Post-War Soviet Experimentation!"

As far as I know, there is no indisputable evidence one way or the other, but I guess the conservative bunch has a leg-up with their theory that it never saw combat. Personally, I think there is a chance it did, considering the desperation of the times, but I don't think we'll ever know for sure.

Oh, as for its design, I would much rather have a platoon of E-50s or E-75s (or even E-10s, my personal favorite prototype) than this behemoth. What was Hitler thinking?!?! Did Guderian have any control over R&D?

[karch]

Originally posted by SS_Obergruppenführer:

Yes, actually I would like to see it...but only if it does not delay CMBB for a single second, but seeing that BTS is extremely busy just as it is, the anwer must be NO!

I agree. It would be fun to have it for goofing around to and to see strengths and limitations of it. BUT if it would delay CMBB more than a couple days, then NO. I had fun last night playing IP last night with a friend. KTs and JTs vs Pershings and super pershings. It was a riot. It proved nothing but it sure was a hoot. We had a blast. That is what I see using a Maus for. For fun, not for realistic battle. I won't be upset if it's not in but I can't believe the NOT people would never try it even once to see what it is like.

[Spanish Bombs]

As long as we're on the subject, I find the whole Maus at Kubinka topic to be pretty interesting. I mean, I'm sure we all have a number of resource books and the like which unequivocally state that both known Maus's (Mices?) were destroyed to prevent the Russians from capturing them. That seemed to be the common western opinion for some time. Then, lo and behold, a Maus shows up in the Russian tank museum. I'm sure someone out there knows this story better than I, but the fact that common knowledge was so wrong for, what 20 years?, is kinda a cool cold-war artifact.

[ May 11, 2002, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: Spanish Bombs ]

[Solomo]

No, we have it in the PP2 addon in Panzer Elite - no one uses it in online play on Kali because it's invulnerable. Nothing but a curiosity...

[Scipio]

Originally posted by Spanish Bombs:

As long as we're on the subject, I find the whole Maus at Kubinka topic to be pretty interesting. I mean, I'm sure we all have a number of resource books and the like which unequivocally state that both known Maus's (Mices?) were destroyed to prevent the Russians from capturing them. That seemed to be the common western opinion for some time. Then, lo and behold, a Maus shows up in the Russian tank museum. I'm sure someone out there knows this story better than I, but the fact that common knowledge was so wrong for, what 20 years?, is kinda a cool cold-war artifact.

Just go and look yourself in the Russian Museum

[ May 11, 2002, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Scipio ]

[The Commissar]

dudes

i think da mouse should b like a secret easter egg or sumfink like if you beat all the game scenarios in a row on the hardest difficulty with the ai given all da bonuses u get da mouse like in death match games so u can totally r0x0r your n00b friends bts should make da paintsceme have like "uberleet" or "woot!" painted on the turret!!!

[Soddball]

Hmmm. I think I hear the trample of the feet of modders - towards the nearest lift shaft

[Determinant]

You have to love the freak stuff - I have since seeing the British tortoise at Bovington. The great link to the Russian tank museum with its Maus almost makes me want to visit!

You wonder what the project planning must have been for these monsters. I see it like a Dilbert Cartoon: Dilbert the engineer is there with the blackboard saying: 'Look it's simple - there is a triangle - mobility, protection and firepower are the corners. We need to be in the middle!

But The Boss is saying... 'I hear what you say, but I just love Battleships - imagine if one of those could travel cross country?...'

But in the game? Nope.

[Spanish Bombs]

Originally posted by Scipio:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Spanish Bombs:

As long as we're on the subject, I find the whole Maus at Kubinka topic to be pretty interesting. I mean, I'm sure we all have a number of resource books and the like which unequivocally state that both known Maus's (Mices?) were destroyed to prevent the Russians from capturing them. That seemed to be the common western opinion for some time. Then, lo and behold, a Maus shows up in the Russian tank museum. I'm sure someone out there knows this story better than I, but the fact that common knowledge was so wrong for, what 20 years?, is kinda a cool cold-war artifact.

Just go and look yourself in the Russian Museum</font>

[Skipper]

Here is a vehicle nick-named Zveroboy = Beast killer. This was the only soviet AFV that could deal with Tigers and Panthers head on head at the time of Kursk battle. Hence the nick.

SU-152

[ May 11, 2002, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: Skipper ]

[Le Tondu]

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing it against me in a scenario. It must have some vulnerabilities that can be exploited in a true combined arms effort. Every nut can be cracked.

Just imagine the cost in terms of points that it would have and then consider that rarity is being built in. You would simply outnumber it as it would most likely be alone against you.

I bet it was slow and could easily get stuck when off road. On top of that, once the gun was hit and put out of action, it would become nothing more than a fancy coffin.

Yeah, I want it in CMBB. Bring it on!

[Warmaker]

I'd love to see the Maus, though it'd be more interesting to see the E-series. However, priority for the makers should be on the stuff to actually see combat. No matter how rare they were, if they fired shots in anger, put the thing in. Besides, the rarity system could come into play for all the whiners.

[Volker]

Ok, I'll post again, seems some of you find it interesting. I just thought that 6 months after you played every mission in CM:BB your gonna be looking to download new maps. Even if the Maus is not in the game, you still dont know what the limits the Modders are gonna run into with the new models. They could in fact allow them to totally change a JagTiger to look like a Maus for fun. I would like to see a Fictional Campain where the war carrys on long after 1945. Perhaps the Maus would be use by then. At lest the Jagtiger is kinda close for Modders to play with. But hey, BTS could shock us with a Maus, to be used in Operations and Battles after 1945.

[Seanachai]

Originally posted by Volker:

How many Fictional Battles or Operations has everyone played? Ok, so lets jerk out all Fictional Missions from the game, and from the depot from now on if Fantasy does not belong in CM. Im really surprised with the response im getting from this, you guys are usually really cool about this type of thing.

Actually, there's a great deal of difference between 'fictional' battles, or even completely 'fantastical' battles, and including a piece of equipment as common as the Yeti.

Between the ability to speculate about 'what if' battles, and the much more common 'attempting to create or re-create possible or known battles', and spending time speculating about a piece of equipment that even the most fanatical 'what-ifer' would have to acknowledge as 'too stupid to have any actual combat application', I'd have to say that many people would do the former, and only a handful of the most jaded would bother with the latter.

Seriously, on the level of CM, why would anyone even bother to attack something like this? Drive around it and continue on to Berlin, rather. Let it break down trying to catch up as you drive away waving an upraised middle finger at it.

I'd vote no. I think there are many far more interesting 'weird' or 'marginal' tanks that would be more interesting to see put through some sort of tactical pace in CM than this (barely) ambulatory pillbox.

[Warphead]

You can not change a Jagdtiger into a Maus. Like in CMBO only the textures can be changed. The vehicle models and the engine can not be modded in any way.

And for the people who like http://www.jagdtiger.de : Expect a huge update at the beginning of next month!

[Le Tondu]

Originally posted by Seanachai:

Or just let it run out of fuel. Where is it gonna get more fuel when all of it's fuel depots are captured?

Just what might be it's fuel consumption rate be anyways? It has to be gallons to the mile instead of miles to the gallon.

[ May 12, 2002, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Le Tondu ]

[BeauCoupDinkyDau]

I would rather see the IS-3 and the Panther II as opposed to the Maus when it comes to "fun" units in CMBB.

[Kestrl]

The Maus was a prototype and I'm sure it was slower than the Churchill AVRE, and if you've never used the AVRE its top speed is 16 mph and its cross country is approximatly 8 mph

There isn't any hard data on its performance so i'm sure BTS isn't going to guess and just add it to CM2. I would rather have them model equipment that does have actual hard data.

[Slapdragon]

It should be put more realistically. Do people want the BA-7, T-26, Italiian and Hungarian tanks, all of which actually served, or the E-100, Panther II, and Maus, which did not. In the limited development time, weapons will be dropped for lack of time. The M-16 was sadly dropped from CM:BO.

I personally would like to see the less sexy but more historically accurate weapons get in.

Even the JS-III has more reason to be in than those other tanks since it was rolling around the ruins of Berlin, even if the amount of combat it got into was in question. It was issued to front line units and ready to go.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Kestrl:

There isn't any hard data on its performance so i'm sure BTS isn't going to guess and just add it to CM2. I would rather have them model equipment that does have actual hard data.

BINGO - BTS has said as much. They do NOT want to guess on stuff - good call.

[karch]

Originally posted by Slapdragon:

It should be put more realistically. Do people want the BA-7, T-26, Italiian and Hungarian tanks, all of which actually served, or the E-100, Panther II, and Maus, which did not. In the limited development time, weapons will be dropped for lack of time. The M-16 was sadly dropped from CM:BO.

I personally would like to see the less sexy but more historically accurate weapons get in.

Again, I agree. It's kind of a mute point anyway. I'm pretty sure I remember reading BTS would ONLY include vehicles that saw service in WWII and only available during the time they were actually in service. This takes the Maus out right there. I just agree that in a perfect world (my perfect world) the game will be finished with time to spare and some rediculous goodies thrown in for fun...... (an that it shipped last Christmas)