BDW Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 Daimler AC just took out a tiger at range 270 - front turret penetration is that possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 Its probably a 1% chance. Weak point penetration. Not likely or probable, but possible as far as I know -- in the game engine. Whether it would happen one out of 100 times in Reality, if you tried the same thing with a daimler and a tiger, I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 your two statements don't make sense in that order. if indeed the Daimler AC took out the Tiger as you state then obviously it is possible...!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 Maybe with a shot directly through the tiny mg or gunners's opening... But at 270 yards? A golfer hitting a hole-in-one sounds considerably sounds more likely. Hell, a BLIND golfer hitting a hole-in-one sounds more likely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDW Posted August 19, 2002 Author Share Posted August 19, 2002 M Hof - I am sorry to confuse you. I should have used the word "realistic" or the phrase "is that possible in real life" I played back the turn and it did not say weak point penentration, just "front turret penetration" --- bizarre, huh? I wonder about something. THe AC was immobilized at the time. I seem to think that normally the AC would start reversing madly when a Tiger appears at that close of range. So the AC had no choice but to fire on the Tiger. The Tiger only got off one shot. AC killed it on the second shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 Originally posted by BDW: Daimler AC just took out a tiger at range 270 - front turret penetration is that possible?FRONT TURRET PENETRATION :eek: ???? That does seem highly unlikely in Real Life, but in this game there is always that weak spot penetration chance, I would say that is like rolling snake eyes three times in a row with a pair of sixed sided dice. BUT that round is only 40 mm (IIRC) and there is something about the Math and ballistics calculations in this game that make that and the Allied 37mm round more likely to penetrate than they would in Real Life, but I am not all that familiar with those calculations or details. Don't worry someone like Rexford or another armour penetration ballistics grog, will be along shortly with a the whole story. (I'm guessing) (remember its JUST a game) -tom w [ August 19, 2002, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Carr Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 This kinda thing happens to me all the time. Hell I even lose Tigers to Stuarts and Greyhounds from frontal penetration. It's getting to the point where if I see a Stuart or Greyhound advancing in on my heavy Panzers positions I turn tail and run. COOMMMEEE OOONNNN CMBB! I really hope this kind of nonsense has been fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Young Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 Hey, There is a reason why they kept building those light guns until the end of the war. They are fine weapons at close range, which is 90% of the fighting in Europe. E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John D Salt Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 Originally posted by BDW: Daimler AC just took out a tiger at range 270 - front turret penetration I've just run a few quick tests with a dug-in but ammoless Tiger about 270m from a line of 10 Daimlers, who then proceed to give it a vigorous ball-peening. In 10 replications, the Tiger got walloped three times; the other seven times the Daimlers ran out of ammunition without inflicting any damage. I'm not sure what proportion of the ammo expended over these runs scored hits, but it must have been better than half. Assuming it was only half, then from these results it seems that you need something over three thousand 2-pdr hits to produce one kill. You may regard a second-shot kill as pretty lucky. All the best, John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 I think what is completly ignored here : would a real life daimler crew attemped to attack a Tiger frontal??? I would think that a Daimler crew, facing a Tiger, would act more like 'Let's get the hell out of here' 'Damned, I can't run fast enough, my pandies are full up to my nipples!' Technical, I think the problem is that a visible contact does not influence the moral in CM. Maybe it is possible for a Daimler to penetrate a Tiger frontal (I really don't know), but how cool must someone be to he try it? Another example, when a group of Infantry face a Tiger (or any other tank) while they are in open terrain I would think that this is already enough to turn them into alerted, maybe even panic. [ August 19, 2002, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: Scipio ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightningWar Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 Tiger? I have lost a few Panthers to Daimler ACs on a frontal penetration. And they were all from over 400 meters! -LW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobear Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 A Tiger just killed my Stuart at 100 yards w/ a rear armor penetration hit! Boo-hoo. When will BTS stop this madness??? :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 I don't remember - does CMBO model the "LittleJohn" squeeze bore attachment for 2 pdrs & 37mm? Many were apparently removed because AT work wasn't the main role for hte recce vehicles that had those weapons (surprise!!) and they prevented HE being fired...... apaprently with it the gun could penetrate 79mm at 1000 yds, so 100mm at 270 yds might nt be far out Penetration tables Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Originally posted by LightningWar: I have lost a few Panthers to Daimler ACs on a frontal penetration. And they were all from over 400 meters! Your own fault for getting the Panthers with the shot trap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsd Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Originally posted by John D Salt: In 10 replications, the Tiger got walloped three times; the other seven times the Daimlers ran out of ammunition without inflicting any damage.Thanks Jon, that's a very interesting test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dittohead Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 An elite 37mm gun crew(M8) can tank a panther out from I think like 720 meters in under a minute every time due to the shot trap( ran tests on it long ago). The game assumes that the shell ricochets with its full penetration power. However the smaller rounds would probably shatter on impact or not have sufficient power after the ricochet. esp. at the longer ranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Originally posted by John D Salt: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BDW: Daimler AC just took out a tiger at range 270 - front turret penetration I've just run a few quick tests with a dug-in but ammoless Tiger about 270m from a line of 10 Daimlers, who then proceed to give it a vigorous ball-peening. In 10 replications, the Tiger got walloped three times; the other seven times the Daimlers ran out of ammunition without inflicting any damage. I'm not sure what proportion of the ammo expended over these runs scored hits, but it must have been better than half. Assuming it was only half, then from these results it seems that you need something over three thousand 2-pdr hits to produce one kill. You may regard a second-shot kill as pretty lucky. All the best, John.</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow 1st Hussars Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 I lost a 6 tigers to a single regular 37mm AT gun.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkur Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 I lost a 6 tigers to a single regular 37mm AT gun.......... Ouch! I bet that left a mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stixx Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Originally posted by Shadow 1st Hussars: I lost a 6 tigers to a single regular 37mm AT gun..........Is that a 6pdr? I've never heard of a 37mm gun in CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightningWar Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Your own fault for getting the Panthers with the shot trap. " Eh? I thought the Panther G didnt have that issue. I mean if you have a Panther G and were going up against a Dailer AC do you suggest I back down when going head to head? -LW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlow Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Panther G has a shot trap. Panther G late does not. In any event, I think you were the victim of bad luck more than anything else. Shot trap hits are not very common, you just tend to remember when it happens to you. I did a quick and dirty test, with 10 Daimlers against 1 Panther G at about 400m In 5 trials, the Panthers won each time, with no shot trap hits. Hardly scientific, but it does show that (at least at 400m) shot trap his don't happen all that much. [ August 20, 2002, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: Marlow ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow 1st Hussars Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Originally posted by Stixx: Is that a 6pdr? I've never heard of a 37mm gun in CM.No, that would be the 37mm AT gun. US Airborne have them in the early months. [ August 20, 2002, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: Shadow 1st Hussars ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Guys, please watch your quotes, you attribute sentenses to the wrong persons. A tank with no shot trap has a 1% change of weak spot penetration. A tank with a shot trap has, accourding to BTS Steve, a 10% change of weak spot penetration. From my own testing it feels more like 3-5%, though. A weak spot penetration means that the armor is reduced, accourding to BTS Steve, "by 30-50%". For me it feels rather like to 30-50%. In addition, there seems to be bugs around weak spots and variable armor. The Daimler AC penetrations on Tigers as discussed here, with no announcement of weak spot hit by the game engine, seem to be for real. It occurs to me that maybe the "+" modifier on the 100mm turret front armor does not work as announced and sometimes comes out with less than 100mm, instead of something between 100 and 200mm. [ August 20, 2002, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: redwolf ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Originally posted by Stixx: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Shadow 1st Hussars: I lost a 6 tigers to a single regular 37mm AT gun..........Is that a 6pdr? I've never heard of a 37mm gun in CM.</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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