Wild Bill's Rumblings of War AAR Thread

[JonS]

Don't blame yourself Wade - all the Allied players of that one are going "Oh my God! The horror! How did he get a screenie of my game - surely they can't ALL have turned out like that?"

Meanwhile, all the Germans are going "Hehehe, yup, that's what it was like"

Either way, both groups are speechless.

Regards

JonS

P.S. How did you get a screenie of my game? :confused:

[von Lucke]

Originally posted by redeker:

OK everyone...

FWIW, I was defending Americans. I set up a tripwire of half-squads, crews and extra HQ's the entire width of the board (because I'm paranoid during night scenarios) but generally in front of the bocage, with the MLR generally 20-30m behind the bocage in the grain. I had some great luck early in the game, and my TRPs were placed in pretty good spots.

My defense exactly --- except I had only a single bazooka team covering the far left road. Luckily for me about the same time Kingfish decided to push on that flank in ernest, my reinforcements arrived in the exact same spot, and I fought him to a standstill there. He then threw his full weight into a push down the two roads on the right, I shifted my remaining reserves to counter, but ended up with about a company of German mechanized infantry at the front door of my Battalion CP.

Amazingly enough, I won this scenario by the skin of my teeth. One more turn though, and it would have gone in Kingfish's favor...

[wadepm]

Thanks Jon, but I am pretty sure that's my game. Here is the way things ended on my right, or is this a shot of von lucke's game, I am so confused!

[Kingfish]

That can't be a shot from von Lucke's game, there are live German vehicles in the pic.

[wadepm]

Well, here it is again...the thread is slowly fading away. So here is a little contest. Looking at the pick below can you tell me what scenario it is and what turn?

[Holien]

Can't Wait and turn 20.

What do I win?

H

[Kingfish]

The scenario is 'Crisis at Kommerscheidt'. The battle features American troops (X-Resolve at Ranville) and is fought during the daylight hours (X-Sounds in the night), with overcast skies (X-Duel at Dompaire), fall foliage (X-We can't wait) and buildings in the background (X-Real guts).

The turn is harder to guess. The clues tell me that the battle is well underway, and probably past the halfway point. In the pic we see an American unit that has already taken at least 4 casualties (2 man graphic). The dead German unit has been killed outside of the town, indicating either part of the original garrison that has been pushed out or one of the reinforcing units trying to push back in. The Location looks like the eastern outskirts of Kommerscheidt, with the ridge in the background.

Assuming those red lines are target lines then we have units both at ground level and at upper elevations, perhaps in the top floors of Buildings within the town as well as long range fire from the Kall trail. Since the distance is too far from the Kall trail for small arms fire I assume the American armor reinforcements have arrived (either Shermans or M10s).

Taken all these clues into consideration I say...Turn 21.

[gredeker]

Originally posted by wadepm:

Well, here it is again...the thread is slowly fading away. So here is a little contest. Looking at the pick below can you tell me what scenario it is and what turn?

I'll agree that it's Kommerscheidt for the reasons that Kingfish mentioned, but I think it's much earlier in the game. I'm going to say it's the beginning of turn four, when the Allied Armor has just appeared on the trail.

And I'm pretty sure that the exact location on the map is the east end of that long patch of woods located 40m south of the Kall River trail as it enters the town of Kommerscheidt. The camera is pointing north.

FWIW, I had a German LMG team die in almost the exact same location.

[Holien]

In answer to my own question.

Zip.....

[wadepm]

Very good. The battle is "Crisis" and the location is very close! Process of elimination was the way to go, RoW scenarios are all very different. The turn is 7. The Amis had just broken through the initial line of German defenders and were starting to target a platoon holed up in the town. If it had been turn 4 I might have done better!

[ March 07, 2002, 10:23 PM: Message edited by: wadepm ]

[gredeker]

ROW participants, we can now talk about Kommerscheidt!

My question to you all is: How many German players were able to take the Kall River Trail flag with the stealth platoon in the American rear? I tried sneaking up close, but I opened up too early on units coming back to claim the flag; Jukka-Pekka and I ended up in a firefight around the flag, which remained under contention.

BTW, Jukka-Pekka is very good at block-busting with American armor and artillery. I feel very lucky to do as well as I did (36 to Jukka-Pekka's 58).

[Treeburst155]

Hehehe....you guys have been chatting up a storm in here for weeks I see. This makes me happy. You guys had fun with the tourney, and still are having fun with it. That's what it's all about.

We will have more tourneys after CMBB comes out.

Editted because I wanted to.

Treeburst155 out.

[ March 21, 2002, 04:15 AM: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

[wadepm]

I completely ignored the flag in my rear until it was too late and lost it. Did anyone think to leave a platoon back to guard that flag? My thinking was that the Germans would have to cross the river to get to it and I had the other side well under control so I didn't think I needed anyone right on the flag. I had a reserve platoon in the town that never saw action so I had the troops to do it too. Poop.

[Holien]

From an American Stand point I saw the three flags and knew deep down that Wild Bill was not going to be nice to me.

I left a sizeable force at the rear flag to ensure that I kept it.

I ignored the German flag as I wanted to ensure I had two very secure before even trying to get a third flag.

As it turned out I dispatched the small German force attacking my base flag with ease, although at the time I was quite worried as I expected a two pronged attack.

From my perspective it seemed that the Americans had the edge in the game and it was a hard one for the Germans to win.

H

[Wild Bill Wilder]

Holien, you are a deadly opponent! :eek:

In actuality, as some "whipped like a dog" US players will tell you, it ain't that easy.

You are a skillful commander and used prevention along with aggressiveness. You anticipated. You did not take anything for granted.

I'm betting your approach to Kommerscheidt-Schmidt was cautious. You can't be too cautious of course, or you'll never get there.

The overall scores are actually pretty evenly balanced. I'm hoping it was fun and challenging for you.

I've thoroughly enjoyed your participation and AARs, along with all the other formidable warriors in this tourney group!

Wild Bill

[Holien]

Yep all the games were a serious challenge and I did enjoy them even if at times I was getting a serious beating handed to me.

It just seemed in that game that I had plenty of time to get my Arty to fall on his first wave of attackers on the town.

No sooner than that had finished I was able to do the same with his next wave.

That left his Heavy tanks in street fighting against the nimble Sherman require some deft play by the Germans if they are to stand any chance.

I managed to get behind them with some bold moves and easily shove some bombs down their tail pipes.

After the loss of his Heavies it was a down hill ride.

Mind you full respect to George as he was dealing with some serious RL problems and I am sure he did not have his mind on the game. I feel kinda bad that the game went the way it did.

Anyway, I am now getting some training in with CIKS on your Armoured Ambush scenario, with me as the German player. I am moaning like hell as the Allies have the edge in forces.

Mind you poor old CIKS has had some bad luck which has put me back in the game. I had a Tiger in one turn take out three of his tanks, and another threw a track when a shell got too close.

The map is great and if people want a good game with a different twist I suggest you pick it up. The Germans have a slight dis-advantage which may become serious if you have a player who knows how to use Allied tanks.

H

[ March 22, 2002, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: Holien ]

[CombinedArms]

Originally posted by Holien:

From an American Stand point I saw the three flags and knew deep down that Wild Bill was not going to be nice to me.

I left a sizeable force at the rear flag to ensure that I kept it.

H

I was Allies.

I "cheated" and read a history of the battle, so I knew the Germans would attack the Kall Trail from the rear. I kept two platoons back to hold the VL which turned out to be more than enough.

[CombinedArms]

I was interested to see on the other ROW thread that Real Guts turned out dead even, Allies vs. Axis. I've now played it twice vs. humans as the Allied attacker and got clobbered both times. So I tried it as Axis vs. the AI and won 97-3. The AI isn't a great attacker, admittedly, but this sort of score suggests that there's a problem for the attacker that must be solved or a gruesome slaughter will ensue.

So, you successful Allied attackers, how did you manage to solve the problem?

[gredeker]

Originally posted by CombinedArms:

I was interested to see on the other ROW thread that Real Guts turned out dead even, Allies vs. Axis. I've now played it twice vs. humans as the Allied attacker and got clobbered both times. So I tried it as Axis vs. the AI and won 97-3. The AI isn't a great attacker, admittedly, but this sort of score suggests that there's a problem for the attacker that must be solved or a gruesome slaughter will ensue.

So, you successful Allied attackers, how did you manage to solve the problem?

Frankly, I think a lot of that scenario is determined by the German defensive setup. In the game I played, the two 75mm pillboxes were given limited LOS - one was placed in a small draw on the German right, with good LOS to the bridge on that side, but not much else; the other 75mm pillbox was placed in the center near the diagonal road, which served to deny the middle ground to armor that attacked over that first ridge. However, neither of these pillboxes had good LOS to the appearance location of the American armor reinforcements. The Pak40 had a good LOS to the bridge on the German left side, but after he took out one tank he was taken out by a hail of avenging 75mm HE from the other Shermans.

On the German right, I smoked the pillbox and close-assaulted it with infantry - luckily a squad took it out just a turn or two before the Allied reinforcements appeared on that side, as they appeared squarely in its sights.

My middle-of-the-game discovery of the middle pillbox served to accentuate the flanking nature of my attack. Only one platoon made it up the very center - everyone else went to the flanks.

Of course, luck still plays its part. The second Tiger was taken out by a Greyhound who got a weak point penetration as he was starting to run circles around the kitty.

[CombinedArms]

Thanks for the Real Guts info and also for sending me your AAR. Thanks also to Jon. Location of the AT pillboxes does seem to be key. Kingfish nailed me in a replay with the PB75s in my face on the two hills on the extreme right & left. I close-assaulted both but the attacks were costly in infantry, and I only got the one on my left. Meanwhile four tanks that arrived as replacements were killed where they landed before they could escape the line of fire.

When I tried the same approach as Axis vs. AI, I got my 97-3 score. So a forward placement of the PBs in good line of sight would seem to be hard to beat.

[ March 23, 2002, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: CombinedArms ]

[Holien]

That's where I went wrong in that game as I placed my PB's with limited LOS like you would an AT Gun.

I also reckoned that if they were in an obvious placve they would be smoked and prevented from doing any good.

Why did you not smoke those PB's Tom?

H

[Bertram]

For Real Guts I was Redekers opponent (I think). I did place the PB's with limited view. Big mistake. I was under the (wrong) impression that the Allies stil had to cross the river (for WBW, maybe you could state in the briefing that they had infiltrated across the river? Same goes with the Real Estate scenario. I think the Germans should know that the Allies had infoiltrated the village). The infantry on my side was a rude suprise. With that and the very agressive playing of Redeker I was finished (like in slaughtered) efore my reinforcements arrived. As a result he could slaughter them piecemeal (sp?).

As for the Night game: Wade, the situation on your right flank was not as desparate as it seemd, the SP's were out of ammo/immobilized without a los. The infantry was not in a shape to take that house anymore. In fact the arty halfway took out most of that flank halfway the attack.

Your defense on your left flank was doomed. I was a bit pissed at the CM angine in that one, I had that tank of yours surrounded, planety of 'fausts'left, and a Stug coming up, and then the game stopped, 4 turns short of the regular game time, leaving the flag contested. And just the previous tunr I had been debating if I needed to run or could advance carefull. I choose to advance carefull, since I could not get m troops to the other flank anyway. My comments on the engine stoiping the game are not fit for this board (not even for the Peng thread.)

As I asked elsewhere: the 'No time' and the Dompaire scenario's promised air support (maybe). I recieved it in neither game. It was not that bad in Dompaire (lost that one, but I could have done much better I think), but in No time it really hurt. In fact once the German armor arrived I could as wel pack it in, there was no way my green and regular Shermans could advance against the German armor (as far as I could see). Anyone else got no air and made any progress anyway?

Bertram

[Bertram]

As to the flag at the rear in Kommerscheidt, I did dig in some men there. I dug them in to close to the flag though, so my opponent just sneaked up to them, and the flag got 'contested' without a shot being fired. I didn't notice his men until after the scenario ended. The sneaky bastard.

Bertram

[CombinedArms]

Originally posted by Holien:

Why did you not smoke those PB's Tom?

H

I did but ran out of smoke. Also Kingfish set up his infantry defenses behind the PB on my left and to the side of the one on my right so if I smoked the front of the PBs to attack with infantry, my grunts got nailed as soon as they tried to get behind the PBs. Maybe I could have coordinated my attack more skillfully, but the timing was very tricky.

With forward-placed PBs, even if the attacker ultimately kills both of them with close assaults, the delay they've occasioned will generally be great enough to let the Axis get his reinforcements and set up his next line of defenses. (On the other hand, the PBs in High Cost Real Estate are probably too far forward--they're very easily overrun by infantry, esp. the one in the center. And you can't move them.)

[ March 24, 2002, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: CombinedArms ]

[gredeker]

Originally posted by Bertram:

As I asked elsewhere: the 'No time' and the Dompaire scenario's promised air support (maybe). I recieved it in neither game. It was not that bad in Dompaire (lost that one, but I could have done much better I think), but in No time it really hurt. In fact once the German armor arrived I could as wel pack it in, there was no way my green and regular Shermans could advance against the German armor (as far as I could see). Anyone else got no air and made any progress anyway?

Bertram

Bertram,

Are you talking about "We Can't Wait"? I received air support in that game, but it was a mixed bag. The initial bombing run was a case of friendly fire - the first bomb barely missed one of my tanks, and the second landed smack in the middle of my mounted support elements. I lost three trucks, two jeeps, one HT, two bazooka teams, one MMG team, and a mortar team; a Sherman was also immobilized by the blast. On subsequent strafing runs the airedales took out an Ostwind and the quad 20mm flak gun, and maybe a HT or two.

In Duel at Dompaire, I played the Germans, and lost (IIRC) four or five half-tracks to Pixelmaster's air power. The planes kept firing rockets at but missing my Panthers, but the strafing runs hurt my light armor.

Greg

P.S. Yes, we played Real Guts.