CPU usage in CMBB???

[Visom]

Anyone know if CMBB will use 100% of the CPU power just as CMBO?

I'm having problems with my HP laptop, it gets overheated. CMBO is killing the fan and draining the batteries. I've replaced one fan and the second is getting worse. I can play roughly 30 minutes before I must let it cool down.

I'd be interested to hear something from BTS regarding if they run any betatests on laptops to find out how long you can play on a laptop before it gets overheated.

[Dschugaschwili]

I suspect that just about any game that uses a 3D engine will use 100% CPU power.

If your laptop overheats, you shouldn't really blame the application. Even a laptop must be able to sustain a couple of hours at 100% CPU usage without temperature problems.

Dschugaschwili

[Olle Petersson]

Visom; You could try to downclock the CPU and/or lower the CPU voltage to reduce heat buildup.

It might be possible to do it from the BIOS setup.

Cheers

Olle

[Visom]

I suspect that just about any game that uses a 3D engine will use 100% CPU power.

Why? CPU usage is what, 5% when I plot my moves, do I need 980 MHz to keep the camera steady? (Oups, sorry, forgot to turn whine mode off.) I don't know much about 3D engines, so you might very well be correct. I just don't see why it should use up all available cycles when it just needs a few. I don't play many games, but CMBO is one of two that has this feature. (The other one is TAO2, an old 2D game). Can't recall problems with MOH or Dungeon Siege. It must be possible to solve it another way, question is if it's worth the hours for BTS?

If your laptop overheats, you shouldn't really blame the application.

Sorry, the purpose of my post was to ask if the same concept is used in CMBB as in CMBO. If it sounded as an accusation I apologise. I'm not referring to it as a bug or a fault, I would just prefer an alternative way of handling the stuff that eats up all the free cycles if possible.

Even a laptop must be able to sustain a couple of hours at 100% CPU usage without temperature problems.

I've tried a few different ones, mostly HP and Toshiba. None can handle 100% for a couple of hours without having their fans working overtime. I'm sure there are exceptions, but my experience is that 100% for an hour will get the temperature up above the recommended max temparature. And even without the heat issue we have the battery issue. Can't play more than 90-120 minutes before they're empty.

Visom; You could try to downclock the CPU and/or lower the CPU voltage to reduce heat buildup.

It might be possible to do it from the BIOS setup.

Thanks for the tip, will try it.

[Dschugaschwili]

Originally posted by Visom:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I suspect that just about any game that uses a 3D engine will use 100% CPU power.

Why? CPU usage is what, 5% when I plot my moves, do I need 980 MHz to keep the camera steady?

</font>

[WWB]

I support 6 hp laptops (XE something or others). They all have heat issues aside, even if you are just running word and powerpoint.

WWB

[Visom]

That's (probably) why you get a CPU utilization of 100%.

I suspect the CPU goes to 100% when I enter the password screen. I'm rather sure it's up before I press play and I know for sure that it's 100% without touching the mouse/keyboard while plotting. Before I press Done after the movie, after I press done and so on. Only time CPU should be 100% is while the turn is processed. I could accept if it was 100% while dragging the lines during plotting as well, but it is all the time.

I support 6 hp laptops (XE something or others). They all have heat issues aside, even if you are just running word and powerpoint.

Probably true. My point is that the 100% CPU usage causes problems for laptops because they're more vulnerable to heat. Or is it just HP laptops? Anyway, my question is if it's the same in CMBB, as it'll have some impact on my next PC purchase.

[ May 27, 2002, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: Visom ]

[Panzer Leader]

I have a 1.2 Athlon desktop with the EXACT same problem, only I oveheat in 15-30 min. of use.

[Londoner]

Dam, so its not worth me buying a laptop for CM?

[Soddball]

I think it depends on the laptop model.

Damn, Panzer Leader, what cooling have you got on your machine, and how big is the case? My Athlon doesn't overheat at all - I have three 8cm case fans and a huge HS/Fan to keep it cool - but my video card gets toasty very quickly.

[Panzer Leader]

I have fought this problem for almost a year with no real success. I have a standard ATX case with the usual case fan and processor fan and power-supply fan. I added a "card fan" or whatever you want to call it in the spare slot but that didn't appear to help.

My next attempt at a solution will be getting a new video card, currently I have a TNT2, but I am worried this won't save my over-heating problem.

My processor temp hovers around 120-130 (with about 80-90 for case temp) until I start CMBO, then it steadily rises in temperature until the system become unstable.

Note, this is the ONLY game that causes my computer to overheat.

[Herr Kruger]

On a side note : what temperature is considered dangerous...? ie. when you are looking in your BIOS or setup program and it tells you the system temp, what number should make you worry?

[Andreas]

Originally posted by Londoner:

Dam, so its not worth me buying a laptop for CM?

Unsurprisingly, CMBO runs like a breeze on Apple Powerbooks and iBooks. No overheating. So the answer is, if you want to get a laptop, get a decent one, get an Apple.

[rleete]

Originally posted by Herr Kruger:

On a side note : what temperature is considered dangerous...? ie. when you are looking in your BIOS or setup program and it tells you the system temp, what number should make you worry?

It's different for different processors. Even pentium chips with different cores have different temperature limits. Try visiting the site of the chip manufacturer, they will have all the specs.

AMD chips tend to run hotter than Intel stuff.

[YankeeDog]

Since there has been some speculation on this thread as to whether or not ALL laptops have overheating problems when playing CM, allow me to throw in my experience:

I have a Dell Inspiron 8200. I got it specifically for playing CM on the road. I play quite frequently, both off of outlet power and the battery, and have never had a problem with overheating.

Obviously, this is of no help to Visiom, but I just thought I'd let everyone know that there are viable laptop platforms for CM out there. They're not cheap, but there out there.

Cheers,

YD

[karch]

I think any computer that has overheating problems running CM probably hasn't been designed very well. They are making assumptions that the computer will not be heavily used for long periods of time, like 3D games.

My iBook and iMac don't even have a single fan in them and they never overheat. My friends G4 laptop (more powerful processor) has a fan and gets REALLY hot while playing CM, but not doing anything else.

3D games will always push a computer game really hard. It will also take all available processor cycles it can to get the best frame rates it can. Unless you could set a throttle that says don't run any faster than 15FPS, your computer will do it's best to get the fastest, smoothest 3D on screen completely maxing out your computer. I doubt many 3D games have the ability to throttle DOWN frames/quality. Not many people would want it.

There are plenty of computers PC/Mac that run CM without overheating, but I'd wager ALL of them have a maxed CPU while running CM.

regards,

[WWB]

As pointed out above, all laptops do not have this problem. I would look at the heavy duty, big body models intended as desktop replacement units. These are meant to be on for 8-12 hours at a stretch, etc.

Also, for the record, I have CM going in the background (as well as 2 IE windows, Netscape Mail and mIRC) and my processor usage is sitting pretty at 7% on a Celeron 800.

WWB

[karch]

How do you test the processor usage in Windows. I know there is the Task Manager. If you open it up and keep it up front, will it stay in front of the game so you can see the CPU utilization? How else would you know how high the processor use is?

On a Mac, you can't in OS 9 and below. You can in OSX, similar to Task Manager, but, alas, no native CM in X.

[WWB]

Well, one can look at the graph it makes. When CM is in the foreground it does take 100% of the cycles.

WWB

[StellarRat]

Originally posted by Panzer Leader:

I have fought this problem for almost a year with no real success. I have a standard ATX case with the usual case fan and processor fan and power-supply fan. I added a "card fan" or whatever you want to call it in the spare slot but that didn't appear to help.

My next attempt at a solution will be getting a new video card, currently I have a TNT2, but I am worried this won't save my over-heating problem.

My processor temp hovers around 120-130 (with about 80-90 for case temp) until I start CMBO, then it steadily rises in temperature until the system become unstable.

Note, this is the ONLY game that causes my computer to overheat.

I had the same problem (but not just with CMBO.) The solution was to add a side panel fan. That made a huge difference. They suck the hot air out of the case instead of just blowing it around inside (like the CPU and front case fan.) Try it. I think it will work for you.

[Visom]

Sorry for bumping, but I want to know if the CPU usage will be 100% in CMBB. (Not asking for explanation or anything, it's just that I need to put some more investigations on my next laptop purchase if this is the case.) A simple yes or no is all I want.

[urgrue]

My toshiba laptop also runs very hot with CMBO. Doesn't go to the point of crashing but HP is notoriously bad with overheating. But it is true that ALL the time CMBO is running in the foreground, the CPU is at 100%, which isn't usually the case in other programs (for example if i hold still and don't do anything in for example operation flashpoint, my laptop's CPU usage drops). So presumably there is something in the code that eats up those cycles even when it doesn't need them. It even shows 100% if i sit still in the selection menus before the 3d engine is even running.

Yes, a good laptop will survive hard work at max CPU usage indefinitely. But a worse one will become unstable, of course.

Visom's point is valid, imho. The fault is HP's, no computer should overheat under any strain, but CMBO's code really doesn't need to use up all the clock cycles all the time.

I personally would also like to see this fixed (if this can be considered "broken" in the first place, which is debatable), because I also play on my laptop a lot (it doesnt crash but it gets my lap a bit too warm to be comfortable).

As for Panzer Leader's problem, is it your CPU or graphics card that overheats? Cause CPU overheating won't be helped by a new graphics card. You might just be unlucky and your Athlon is slightly faulty, but more likely you should check the cpu fan and take a look how its in contact with your CPU. might be worth it to buy some silicon gel (if thats the correct name for it in english) and reconnect the CPU to the fan. a badly done heat transfer between CPU and fan can make an enormous difference. might even get yourself a better CPU fan while youre at it.

[Gen-x87H]

AMD chips tend to run hotter than Intel stuff"

Wrong. Go look at the thermal specs of an Intel Pentium 4. That chip was so hot that a lot of OEMs had to build custom cases that could suck out enough hot air.

www.sandpile.org is a good start.

"Visom; You could try to downclock the CPU and/or lower the CPU voltage to reduce heat buildup.

It might be possible to do it from the BIOS setup"

You dont want to do this. The chip runs at a certain voltage because it is determined this is what is needed to be stable. Since CPUs are just complex circuits. If you lower the amount of energy they recieve it will also lower its ability to perform correctly.

As for the 100% CPU usage. I noticed this also when I would get to a desktop for something. I built a custom app that reports all sorts of fun things including CPU usage. It was 100% on an Athlon 800. And it was 100% on an Athlon XP 1700.

But I have had 0 problems overheating.

Gen

Gen

[Dirtweasle]

HP laptops are notorious for overheating. Mine hear at work overheats all the time. It is a design problem with the HP laptops, not CM if you ask me.

[Schrullenhaft]

Most likely CMBB will continue to use approximately 100% of CPU cycles. While some games won't use up all CPU cycles, CM grabs all that it can to make sure that it has as much horsepower as possible. If you put CM in the background (minimize) it will no longer take up 100% of CPU cycles and other applications can work. A standard CPU cycle sharing situation. Writing in power saving/CPU cycling schemes will probably reduce performance on a consistent basis for a majority of players to accomodate laptop users (since another app in the background could grab up CPU cycles, etc.).

Since CM is programmed on a Mac and ported to Windows it may be fairly hard to try to accomodate PC laptop users in this respect. I don't think that Charles is using a Microsoft compiler and that may be another issue (cross platform code is a bit hard to maintain once you start introducing too many differences between each platform's code).

One other thing to note for laptop users and heat-dissipating fans - desktops have to have their fans running all of the time. Laptops on the other hand are used to the idea of standard desktop apps just sitting there (word processors, email, etc.) and hence can use some of their power saving features to reduce current and conversely reduce their heat output (and save battery life, etc.). With a higher work load these CPUs draw more current, heat up and the fans must come on (unless there's a fantastically designed passive heatsink system). Apple PowerBooks on the other hand are based on the PowerPC G3/G4 (or 60x) series of CPUs which tend to use less current than the PC CPUs, thus they can run on a passive heatsink much better than the PC CPUs and rarely require active cooling.