Mine markers logic

[Thin Red Line]

There is something i don't clearly understand (not surprising BTW, i'm French, so, as Pawbronn stated, don't expect much and divide by two) :

Why are the mine fields marked ?

Who marks them ?

I mean, if you install mines, you shouldn't attract ennemy's attention to it ? So why put markers ?

In the game, i couldn't find out if the mines fields were marked by the side who put them or by the side who walked (rolled) on them ?

An answer would help me to choose which markers nationality to choose in CMMOS depending on which side i play (a side question i admit and maybe i'm the only one to bother...)

[Gyrene]

They're marked so the side who laid them down knows where they are.

In real life these would be just lines on a map and some local-knowledge symbols to prevent friendly casualties.

On the flipside the markers would be laid down by enemy engineers as they locate the mines.

Gyrene

[Thin Red Line]

Thanks Gyrene,

In the game mine fields are marked only when they are detected or laid down by your side, aren't they ?

I come to the conclusion that the type of markers to choose should be your nationality (to represent YOUR engineers putting some warnings signs).

Of course it doesn't work if both sides use mines, but i guess it's pretty rare...

[Redwolf]

One dirty item is that the friendly minefields you can see the markers on extended to a much wider area when show, when unit bases on. I immobilized two TDs in an important game recently because I was steering carefull around what I thought would be extend of the minefield. A turn later I had two friendly "fire" casulties.

[ASL Veteran]

Marking minefields isn't as silly as it seems. In North Africa they would have 'dummy' minefields where you would just have a field marked as a minefield and not know that there aren't any real mines there. So if you saw a marked field, it might have mines or it might not have mines. You can also have minefields that aren't marked (except on your maps). The possibilities are endless. Are there really mines in the marked minefield or are there no mines in the marked minefield but unmarked mines nearby? :eek: Or are there actually mines in the marked minefield and no mines anywhere else? :eek: Maybe there aren't any real mines at all? Maybe they are all real - including some that aren't marked? You could even put no mines in the forward half of the field and put a dense number of mines toward the back of the field (after the enemy has decided the minefield is a dummy)

[John Kettler]

And we haven't even discussed mixed fields, isolated mines and antilift devices!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by John Kettler:

And we haven't even discussed mixed fields, isolated mines and antilift devices!

Regards,

John Kettler

Wanna?

There's a famous photo of a Royal Canadian Engineer in Normandy digging a Teller mine out - using a hand-size shaving mirror to look underneath the mine as he is clearing it, to look for anti-lift devices (I presume - or else for signs of a second Teller buried underneath the first?)

[Cpl Carrot]

One thing I have found is the AI knows the exact dimensions of the minefields. Perhaps they should be of random width. Or perhaps have feilds that you can adjust the thickness and width of. Sort of resize them like a windows box.

[Michael Emrys]

Speaking of mines, I had a curious (to me at least) thing happen a few nights ago. I ordered an FO to crawl forward and hide in a position from which he could call in fire. A couple turns later I had a sharpshooter pass that area close by. As he passed, it was revealed that the FO was in a minefield! Some how he had gotten there:

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• A. Without tripping any mines. </font>
• B. Without spotting any mines. </font>

To my mind, that makes this team both exceedingly careful and exceedingly unobservant. Is this normal behavior within the game?

Michael

[Ozzy]

Minefields are marked

a.) when your scouting specialists detect enemy minefields, to warn your approaching forces.

b.) when your frontlines are ahead of a minefield (regardless whether own or enemy). (mine laying is a costy and long procedure, you likely won't dig them out if your MLR is only 15-20 kms ahead, but tend to leave them where they are as a reserve resistance line)

Of course nobody would place minefield markers if he wants to trap enemy units. That is the reason why initially only YOU see your minefield markers, your opponent not. He needs to detect your minefields first (either by spotting them or by a short air trip ) :eek: For you they are "virtual", as you should know the location of minefields.

In this context, if YOU have the mines, you should use the minefield marker of your OPPONENT side!

Some additional hints:

- different ground units have different chances to detect a minefield.

- moving speed influences the chance of detection - the faster you move, the lower the chance. Similar is true for bad weather, ground and sight (daylight, etc.) conditions.

- Pioniere/Engineers have the best chance to detect minefields AND they have minefield clearing capabilities. Hence, whenever you are attacking with infantry, consider to send Engineers as scouting patrols ahead. Use an Eng. halfsquad 25-50 meters ahead of a (supporting and protecting) rifle platoon. Move at SNEAK (thus they have the best chances to detect the field and they immediately stop when they have detected it). Once they have stopped close to the minefield, they start clearing it, which usually takes 1-3 turns (minefield marker disappears).

- the minefields in CM are NOT realistic full scale minefields, but rather tiles of such a field, as they are far too small and not dense enough. A realistic minefield would be at least 10-15 AP CM minefields in double density (two layers) plus some 2-5 AT minefields overlaid. So if you ever consider to use minefields in the defense, then purchase that mass, as it is the only effective way of using mines. Clearing this field would require up to 15-30 turns, enough time for your arty to make Hamburgers of the clearing units.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Michael emrys:

Speaking of mines, I had a curious (to me at least) thing happen a few nights ago. I ordered an FO to crawl forward and hide in a position from which he could call in fire. A couple turns later I had a sharpshooter pass that area close by. As he passed, it was revealed that the FO was in a minefield! Some how he had gotten there:

</font>

• A. Without tripping any mines. </font>
• B. Without spotting any mines. </font>

To my mind, that makes this team both exceedingly careful and exceedingly unobservant. Is this normal behavior within the game?

Michael

All minefields can be crossed if you are lucky. When I was making experiments with moving immobilized tanks I had to immobilize them first and wanted to use minefields. Needless to say, in this case the StuG went straight through two times.

I don't know about the spotting rules for antipersonal fields, but AT mines are only spotted when they hit a vehicle (not daisy-chain). Did your sharpshooter trigger a mine or did he spot the mines without explosion?

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by redwolf:

Did your sharpshooter trigger a mine or did he spot the mines without explosion?

Without. I think he may have actually skirted the minefield without entering it. But there is no doubt that the FO entered it. I am prepared to believe that crawling or sneaking would give you a much enhanced chance of encountering a minefield without triggering any mines, but shouldn't they have spotted them in that case? That's the part that strikes me as odd. :confused:

Environmental conditions were full daylight in clear, dry weather.

Michael