Am I the only one who don't like the new camera movement?

[Shatter]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Get used to it; not going to change.

Regards,

MAD

Agreed

I was not to fired up about the new camera movement when I first tried the demo, but I got used to it quickly.

Scipio don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the work you have done for CMBO. but there is no sense in complaining about something that is not going to be changed.

I look forward to your upcoming mod for CMBB

[Andrew H.]

Originally posted by billcarey:

I'd be most interested to hear either why the change was made, or, failing that, why *from and interface design standpoint* the new system is *better*.

- Bill

The new system is better from an interface design because you don't have to use the Shift key to slide the view sideways. Not having to use the shift key has a couple of advantages. For one thing, it now only takes one hand to slide the view sideways. Second - and probably most important - you won't have the "caps lock" problem with the other commands.

The "caps lock" problem is what happens when you accidently press the caps lock key while trying to hit the shift key to scroll sideways - it messes up the other hotkey commands. That is, if the caps lock key is down and you try to use the "T" hotkey to give a targeting order, the selected unit won't toggle, but the tree density will change (because Shift-T changes the tree density). Likewise, the (M)ove order will toggle between 2 and 3 man view, ®everse will take the roofs off of buildings, etc.

The only way to avoid avoid the caps lock problem (assuming you use hotkeys) is to look down at the keyboard every time you want to scroll sideways. This isn't a good solution because it is more annoying than the caps lock problem.

(And the "T" problem is the worst because (1) you're always targeting; and (2) if you hit Shift-T, you can't get out of it by hitting Shift-T again; you have to cycle through the 4 states of treeness.)

One handed side scrolling plus no more caps lock problem is why the new design is an improved interface.

[kump]

Michael Dorosh,

For one, I'm not dumb. Well, maybe just a little bit. Hmmm... maybe a lot. Oh heck, I am dumb. But irregardless, calling folks dumb because of their making an issue of an interface change they do not like is, well, dumb.

How can there possibly be an error? :confused:

Who said there was an error? :confused:

We know the "love it or leave it" emphasis you keep making. And we understand that we can't leave it (no rational wargamer could), so we have to learn to love it.

HOWEVER, we can post on this forum our little displeasure with an interface change that for a few of us, is not totally agreeable. So what? Believe it or not, BFC and BTS listens to user feedback, both the positive and the within reason negative.

You can call it whining if you want, but you made your point that you like the interface change and you can't understand us who do not. Good enough, the extra stuff isn't necessary.

Changes like an optional mouse move method may never come in a future patch, but just a small chance of it happening makes this thread worth while.

From the dumb one.

[AnonymousOxide]

Originally posted by Chad Harrison:

Not to burst your bubble, but I kind of liked it. I would always fumble around on the keyboard and press the wrong key when trying to get it to slide anyways.

And as Michael pointed out above, it aint going to change

Chad

So what? Now you fumble around on the screen trying to get it sideways instead.

CMBO control was superior, and I never 'had to get used to it', it just worked right off the bat.

Why does BTS "fix" something that isn't broken? At least give us the option of changing it.

Also, why should I get used to it? In what ways does the new method benifit me? If I were to master the new camera style, I would have no advantage over the CMBO style, so what's the point?

[AnonymousOxide]

Originally posted by Shatter:

How do you know it wont change? Then again, with that kind of attitude, it's obvious why it wont.

[Scipio]

I didn't said that we must go back to the old system OR stay with the new. Make it optional. What's the problem?

Do you fear we could Charles keep away from counting the money we paid for the game?

[edgars]

I've said it earlier, but that time it got no response.

So here it goes, a self-quote:

I got used to the new system quickly and the game "usage" is not a problem, however the new system takes one camera movement option out of the hands of the user. That is simultanious backward movement/rotation (cursor placed in the lower corner). Probably 90% of players never used this option, but i did, found it handy, and am restricted to use in the new system.

Maybe BFC could consider using the very corners of the lower screen to produce such a camera movement?

[M. Bates]

Chad Harrison is the only person who actually seems to like the new system, everyone else just shrugs and say they'll get used to it.

If the system was graduated between panning and rotating - without the present sudden cut off - then the current system would be better.

I agree it is better to have this optional. CMBB can remember our preferences for Tree Coverage or Smoke Graphics, so why not for Camera Movement and Camera View.

The very same people were defending tracer graphics a couple of weeks ago, saying "BTS is absolutely correct, all you stick-in-muds can just get used to it and shut the hell up."

Now BTS may make tracers scalable (hopefully). Then the same people will say, "BTS is absolutely correct to have scalable tracers, CMBB just would not be the same without them."

[Berlichtingen]

Originally posted by M. Bates:

Chad Harrison is the only person who actually seems to like the new system, everyone else just shrugs and say they'll get used to it.

Doea the term 'vocal minority' mean anything to you?

[Thin Red Line]

Originally posted by AnonymousOxide:

CMBO control was superior, and I never 'had to get used to it', it just worked right off the bat.

Not for me. I've always wondered why, in a 2D dimension, i was allowed to go forward and backwards but not left or right with the mouse.

I find CMBB system more intuitive, and it allows us the previous rotating movement at the same time. I don't see the problem, but I must admit i never use a backward rotation.

PS. I'm not Chad Harrisson

[M. Bates]

Originally posted by Berlichtingen:

Even if... only 25% of players dislike the camera system, that in itself is reason enough to go for the optional route. All too often the notorious "CM Fan Boys" try to shout down new players who have grievances or ideas.

CMBB would have the same old machine gun model without people saying, "hold on, perhaps machine guns can be better than in CMBO".

[Scipio]

Originally posted by M. Bates:

[QB]...All too often the notorious "CM Fan Boys" try to shout down new players who have grievances or ideas..../QB]

Not only new players. It seems to be a pleasure for some people to shout down critics, highjack threats etc etc etc...

Anyway, to all the fans of the new system, is there only ONE good reason against the ability to switch between the old and new system?

[jmbunnelle]

I love it, although it will take unlearning the old way. I hated having to constantly hit the keyboard or press the buttons at the bottom of the screen. Big improvement. Can't say it will make going back and playing CMBO very pleasant. I seriously doubt I'll play it for a long time anyway.

[kump]

Actually, its not some new players in this case. But before someone accuses me of being resistant to change...

Working on a project that encounters some real difficulties due to a build environment, I needed, rather demanded, changes. I spent many hours in front of other developer groups pushing my change proposals. It was incredibly difficult, for these folks were so comfortable doing it one way, they could not accept a change. Well, too bad. I made the case that the current system was not sufficient. It finally was changed, and I had to do it (just finished this last week as a matter of fact)!

I don't mind change at all. I love it. Any change that improves my efficiency and productivity is a good thing.

This is how I approached the CMBB interface change. Give it some time. Test drive it. It may indeed be for the better. Change is good.

Except in my humble opinion, in this case, it wasn't for me. Everytime I think I got it down to an art, a fumble would occur. I find it very disturbing for me to have the interface do something unexpected.

I want this feedback to be noticed by the BFC powers that be. I want others who are also disturbed by the change to speak up and be counted. Maybe, just maybe, something can be done. Maybe not. I'll accept that.

In the end, I still have the greatest wargame ever created by mankind soon to be in my possession (come on mailman). My little interface annoyance is just a speck in comparison to my admiration to the accomplishments of the entire staff of BFC in regards to CMBB. The entire package is something to be incredibly proud of.

[Sgt CDAT]

Originally posted by kump:

I find it very disturbing for me to have the interface do something unexpected.

This is a good point and how i feel about the new interface!

[ September 23, 2002, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: Sgt CDAT ]

[Harv]

Well I do Not like the new interface either. I am another rotate and move backwards at the same time type of person, and after playing constantly since the demo came out I am still not "used to" the new movement system.

My left hand is on the keyboard most of the time anyways for giving orders, so I'm another one that is curious as to why this change was implemented.

[AnonymousOxide]

Originally posted by jmbunnelle:

I love it, although it will take unlearning the old way. I hated having to constantly hit the keyboard or press the buttons at the bottom of the screen. Big improvement. Can't say it will make going back and playing CMBO very pleasant. I seriously doubt I'll play it for a long time anyway.

You make it sound like we're rotating the camera with our minds now.