European manual query

[TSword]

He Boys,

Why all this fuzz about the tiny manual ?

I've read it through and have to say it contains all you need to start playing the game.

If you want more (as for instance how to use the editor for instance and other subtleties) use the pdf, you can even print it out on your seldom used Superfuzz500HypercolorLaserspit.

Btw: In a very short time this forum will be full of detailed thorough discussions about the new game mechanics, strategies, errors aehem..., and every little quibble imaginable.

For those having questions come over here.

Greets

Daniel

[Fred]

Originally posted by barrold713:

Fred

Either you are unable to read English sufficiently well to be able to discern important facts and are therefore misconstruing what is being related here or you are really drunk.

Now your English is better than my German, but it is more than evident that you are not absorbing and processing the information you are receiving. Nobody has called you a name in this entire thread. Your opinions have been negatively characterized perhaps but you have not been attacked personally.

Your issues have been answered. Much as they may disagree with the packaging and manual, there is nothing that BFC can make CDV change at this point. You are being completely unreasonable (or are incomprehensibly drunk) to not even wait to see what the possible solutions are from BFC and yet insist on playing your one note over and over. It's like you're in an apple orchard and yelling about not seeing a lemon tree.

BDH

Bar,

you can call me a drunk even more than twice, but I will still be here.

So much for your handling of people with other opinions...(drunk)...

Fred

[Battlefront.com]

Fred,

and do not get melodramatic. When CMBO was published, ordering was no problem for europeans

Sure, before we had a distribution deal with CDV. But once that happened, even with CMBO I must remind you, we gave up our ability to sell directly into Europe. We gave this up willingly because, and only because, the deal CDV offered us was a fair exchange. And since this is a normal arrangement, and it precludes CDV from selling into the US (our core market), it is only fair.

So to echo KwazyDog's post... what is your solution to this? We have one which will be posted shortly (when it is READY and not a second before), but I am sure you will complain about it as much as you are complaining in this thread. Why am I so sure? You have made it clear that the only way to make you happy is to kill our agreement with CDV. And that will not happen.

Steve

[Kwazydog]

Fred, we didnt have the deal with CDV when we starting selling online so you must have ordered before we did. Once we signed with them we couldnt sell the PC version of CMBO anywhere in Europe. To think a publisher would allow us to sell to their target audience is yes, a fantasy world.

So again, what is your solution to this problem Fred...Im still waiting for your thoughts?

Dan

[ September 20, 2002, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: KwazyDog ]

[Apache]

Steve/BTS: At one point this thread had a point and was being added to by others who voiced concern. Read the whole thing. Then it went off track and everyone seems to get a dressing down. That's my point.

I have absolutely NO INTEREST in the box/manual thing now. I am sorted but others might not be so fortunate. That is the point of this thread and the last comment before the current barrage was that BTS are trying for a solution. Where have I bashed BTS? Where have I criticised the response. Fact is some people aren't happy. I no longer fall into that category, it no longer concerns me. Hence my suggestion to close this down and announce when the work round is done. It doesn't really matter what you or I think about people who will not buy it yet, the fact is they might still if there is a workaround (i.e. send a receipt and you can buy the book off us).

[ September 20, 2002, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: Apache ]

[Fred]

Originally posted by TSword:

He Boys,

Why all this fuzz about the tiny manual ?

I've read it through and have to say it contains all you need to start playing the game.

If you want more (as for instance how to use the editor for instance and other subtleties) use the pdf, you can even print it out on your seldom used Superfuzz500HypercolorLaserspit.

Btw: In a very short time this forum will be full of detailed thorough discussions about the new game mechanics, strategies, errors aehem..., and every little quibble imaginable.

For those having questions come over here.

Greets

Daniel

As I said before,

some US friends pray water but drink wine.

They would be the first to complain about a PDF file, about Waffel Grenadiere, etc.

Fred

[BeauCoupDinkyDau]

Guys, you cannot convince this guy, He always belives he is correct, and he will never take another person's POV into account. He is very closed minded. I know, I've had it out with him before. It is a waist of time. BTS, please lock up or somefink.

[Moon]

Originally posted by Hertston:

I just don't believe this stuff about packaging... application software still comes in boxes with full manuals. It's just cost cutting at the expense of customers.

You're totally right. But it's not us cutting the cost, or even CDV. It's the retailer down the road, trying to squeeze out more profit per square foot, and simply refusing to purchase product that is not packed in DVD box. Stuff like this only underlines what is at the very core of Battlefront.com - and it ain't retailers

Martin

[Agua]

Fred,

You're getting a US version so just let it chill, okay?

[Kwazydog]

Apache, as I mentioned way back, Im really hoping we can help everyone out here. As Steve mentioned, this is a hard situation that we ourselves arent totally happy with. We do hope we can make most people happy though, at least those whom want to be made happy.

Glad you sorted out your situation though!

Dan

[Fred]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Fred,

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />and do not get melodramatic. When CMBO was published, ordering was no problem for europeans

Sure, before we had a distribution deal with CDV. But once that happened, even with CMBO I must remind you, we gave up our ability to sell directly into Europe. We gave this up willingly because, and only because, the deal CDV offered us was a fair exchange. And since this is a normal arrangement, and it precludes CDV from selling into the US (our core market), it is only fair.

So to echo KwazyDog's post... what is your solution to this? We have one which will be posted shortly (when it is READY and not a second before), but I am sure you will complain about it as much as you are complaining in this thread. Why am I so sure? You have made it clear that the only way to make you happy is to kill our agreement with CDV. And that will not happen.

Steve</font>

[Fred]

Originally posted by Agua:

Fred,

You're getting a US version so just let it chill, okay?

Agua,

you accept the right of free speech I guess

Fred

[Kwazydog]

Fred, Im still looking forward to your solution to this situation as you have the business degrees and all?

Lets stop the flaming which is all you seem to be doing at the moment give us your thoughts here. Or is the flaming your main goal in this thread?

Dan

[ September 20, 2002, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: KwazyDog ]

[Hortlund]

Would it be possible for a European customer to "buy" a manual from the US (when I say buy I mean pay for p&p) or would that violate your agreement with CDV?

[edit] I mean that should really not be a problem for CDV, its not as if you would be taking business or revenue from them, on the contrary.

[ September 20, 2002, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: Leutnant Hortlund ]

[aka_tom_w]

HOLY CRAP!!

This is one helluva BITCH Session/Complaint thread.

There seems to be a whole lot of yelling going on here.

How about this:

Thanks to Steve for all his patience and his time and effort posting to this thread.....

NOW if you are a complainer and you just met Steve or Dan or Charles at a BTS/BFC convention or on the floor of a gaming trade show IN PERSON, would you be that rude to them.....?????

Seriously.....?

Steve and I have disagreed about a few things in the past but if I met in person I would first thank him for his efforts and passion to make the BEST game I have ever played, I might engage him in a theoretical debate about the implimentation of Relative Spotting in CMII but I would never yell or rant or carry on IN PERSON the way some folks in this thread have done.

Please think about it!!

How would you speak to Steve if you met in person, sure there is PLENTY to complain about in the CDV version....BUT get this, you have THREE choices...

i)Buy the Retail CDV version (easy)

ii) Don't buy the game and Go AWAY (don't go away mad, just go away)

iii) Have someone over here send you the American version once it ships.

(Sure you have to wait a while there have been a few sincere and kind offers to purchase and send the US version to anyone who wants it). (I did not make that offer but a few folks in the forum have done so already).

AND AGAIN...

Suppose you were speaking to Steve in person, would you really be saying all the same things you are typing while happily hiding behind your computer screen?

Kudos to Steve for telling it like it is!

The one thing you can count on around here is the TRUTH!

-tom w

[ September 20, 2002, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[Fred]

Originally posted by KwazyDog:

Fred, Im still looking forward to your solution to this situation as you have the business degrees and all?

Lets stop the flaming which is all you seem to be doing at the moment give us your thoughts here.

Dan

Kwazy,

I do have some degrees (Hamburg City award of 1998 e.g.), and I still think, that CDV would not care about 100 customers ordering through the web.

I left business school with an A+, so I guess I am not this wrong.

Fred

[Sgt Steiner]

Hi Steve

It just is what it is.

No arguement possible with this 'Deerhunterism'

Please do me a favor...

"For you dear anything" (my 'Oliverism' )

after you finally get a copy of CMBB, please post to this forum about a day later and tell us what your excitement level is.

Cant promise as if its as good as you claim I will be too engrossed

Steve I have been and am a firm supporter and indeed advocate of CM (and indeed your early products- my claim to fame being that I got a letter published in last issue of AHs The General (RIP) praising Over The Reich one of my first PC Wargame purchases-) on this and many forums and amongst my local Wargaming contacts.

Just ask Jan (my much better half by far) how 'devoted' I am to your product

So what is the point of getting all down in the dumps about something will likely way very little on your mind as you are blasting away with your ISU-152s?

Childish attitude maybe but then I am just a big kid at heart and it is a game we are talking about here.

Without labouring the point its not the lack of a manual per se I dislike its the lack of information about the lack that is lacking

I suspect my love of Manuals harks back to my old Board Wargaming days of yore and indeed to my current (but neglected- mainly due to CM I might add-) Miniatures Wargaming fetish with shelves full of Rulesets of both thin and thick girths

mostly because you sound quite sensible

Boy have I got you fooled

Not bad for a bloke who said

"I Will Talk No More Forever"

[Kwazydog]

Leutnant Hortlund, keep an eye out for an announcement soon which will hopefully make most people happy

Dan

[Kwazydog]

Well to be honest Fred I am guessing you know next to nothing about the game and publishing industry. I dont mean any disrespect by this as Im sure your area of expertise is in other fields, but the thought that a publisher would allow another company to sell the same product into their area is laughable. They have no idea as to how many product we could sell into their area and would be silly to allow such a risk to their sales.

Ill make it clear and say that there is no way CDV will allow us to sell directly into Europe. We have said this many times now, and it is the honest truth.

So, again, what is your solution here? The one you have seems to be one that no publisher would ever agree to, so its not really a solution at all.

Dan

[ September 20, 2002, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: KwazyDog ]

[Fred]

Originally posted by KwazyDog:

Leutnant Hortlund, keep an eye out for an announcement soon which will hopefully make most people happy

Dan

You really tell us, that you are not a 'printing company' (Steve) and really do not care if europeans get a manual...that is with all due respect, HYBRIS!

I prefer the word arrogance...

Fred

[Clubfoot]

Nobody has welcomed mother into this tortured mess? For shame.

[BeauCoupDinkyDau]

WTF? Fred, your realy are a jackass.

[Kwazydog]

Originally posted by Fred:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by KwazyDog:

Leutnant Hortlund, keep an eye out for an announcement soon which will hopefully make most people happy

Dan

You really tell us, that you are not a 'printing company' (Steve) and really do not care if europeans get a manual...that is with all due respect, HYBRIS!

I prefer the word arrogance...

Fred</font>

[Fred]

Originally posted by KwazyDog:

Well to be honest Fred I am guessing you know next to nothing about the game and publishing industry. I dont mean any disrespect by this as Im sure your area of expertise is in other fields, but the thought that a publisher would allow another company to sell the same product into their area is laughable. They have no idea as to how many product we could sell into their area and would be silly to allow such a risk to their sales.

Ill make it clear and say that there is no way CDV will allow us to sell directly into Europe. We have said this many times now, and it is the honest truth.

So, again, what is your solution here? The one you have seems to be one that no publisher would ever agree to, so its not a solution at all to be honest.

Dan

Kwazy,

again, you are not able to read.

People like me would never buy a crippled version...so they do not loose anything.

So your crusade for CDV is not only rediculous, it is vs. BFC manifesto!

Neither SHRAPNELL nor MATRIX did it.

And, to be honest, I will get my US version or a pirated copy...and I am not alone.

As Steve said, he does not like my bucks..

Fred

[AJSL]

<longish ramble ahead>

I was in two minds whether or not to post in this thread, as it's probably already too long, but in the end thought I'd add my tuppence worth.

My views on the CDV issue are that it's not ideal for existing customers but will be a real boon for CDV, BFC, and ultimately us the players as I believe it will grow the userbase significantly.

As I'm in the UK at the moment (I'm from NZ) I'm faced with the prospect of buying the CDV version, something I'd rather not do. This is in part due to the German mandated restrictions (which don't apply here in the UK), but mainly the copy protection as I'm expecting the CMBB CD (if my CMBO CD is anything to go by) to get a lot of use over the next few years so I'd like a backup, also my main drive is an "old" DVD drive that doesn't always like protected games. I've decided to have the US game sent home to NZ and then re-sent to me here, not ideal but good enough for me.

That said, I perfectly understand BFC's reasons for going with CDV and had I been in the same situation undoubtedly would've done the same thing myself.

Given the heroic levels of customer support and feedback that BFC have provided (for CMBO) up until now, I want to see their efforts rewarded in both the financial and the job satisfaction senses. If that means distribution deals with 3rd parties then so be it.

We live in a commercial world, people don't work for free, mortgages don't pay themselves and quality IT deployments take time (and thus investment) to deliver. In the professional world this is widely understood, and delivering maximum shareholder value and growing the business is the driver. It may not be the only driver, but it's a key one.

Also, one last thing while I'm rambling...

The chaps from BFC aren't our "friends" (well for the most part anyway), they aren't our drinking buddies that can be pressured into a course of action because it seems like a good idea. In fact there's no onus on BFC to provide the (high) level of support and community that they do at all. But the fact that they do, speaks of a company that's prepared to do the best they can for their customers. But when the BFC guys post here they're posting as members of a revenue earning business, not as teenagers in a chat room.

So in summary, my view is that the CDV thing isn't ideal (sub-optimal as our American chums might say..) for some of us, but (from what I can see) makes sense for BFC as a whole. As I see it, increased revenue for BFC means better products (and ensures that there will be further products) for us in the long run.

Cheers,

Alex (very much looking forward to getting CMBB).