will Howell Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 This may seem like a rather sad/sick request: I appreciate it might cause technical/gameplay problems to show all 10 men in an infantry unit. Yet I think it would be very useful if you could have a feature that would show a little corpse or at least a cross (or rifle stuck in ground with helmet on top) on the screen at the location of each casualty. It would be easier to see when a unit is being hit without having to check each one also -this is the sad bit! I enjoy looking after the battle at the carnage - seeing where the heaviest fighting was, where a unit was cut down as it made a valiant yet futile assualt etc - just one little body representing up to 10 men just doesn't do it for me - maybe I should get help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 This was actually discussed way back when CMBO was first released. If you do a search on that board you may be able to discover the reason why this wasn't pursued any further. (I've forgotten what the official answer was, it was that long ago) Mace [ October 25, 2002, 05:16 AM: Message edited by: Mace ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 ever noticed how edit and respond buttons look alike! Mace [ October 25, 2002, 05:14 AM: Message edited by: Mace ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin Red Line Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Originally posted by will Howell: maybe I should get help?Maybe you should first read the manual more carefully. All incapacitated soldiers are not dead, actually most of them are alibve but only wounded, shell shocked, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 A full squad is presented as three soldiers: I'd like if the these soldiers would fall and stay on the field in relation to the casualties, just like the last guy does now, if the squad is eliminated. But I understand it would make the tracking of eliminated squads harder, unless the "extra" fallen troops could be switched off somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmead Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 In addition to some of the reasons stated previously, it is also strongly related to the ability of current computers and the current engine to display and keep track of incapacitated units. This is also part of the whole abstraction issue that is at the basis of this game. CM is not a man for man game, its smallest discernable unit is a squad or in some cases the crew of certain vehicles. What the man left on the field represents is the last point where that unit was a cohesive, combat capable unit that could be directed to complete an action. This issue is the flip side of the 3 man representation of the section. When the CMBO Beta Demo came out, when a unit stopped being commandable, it effectively disappeared. This lead to many debates as to how to appropriately represent units that were no longer available/combat effective. After much debate BFC (BTS at the time) was able to add the simple dead soldier to the game engine. Many wanted blood, guts and gore ala Myth and most RTS games. Charles and Steve (the entire BTS team at the time) chose to not go that route for a variety of reasons. Personally, I think they made the right decision, as I really don't need that level of immersion to enjoy the game. However it has been roundly criticized innumerable times and forms the basis (along with 3 man squads) for some of the strongly polarized debates that have occured with many from the CC/GIC proponents. As I recall, this particular element (the dead/ incapacitated soldier) is unmoddable as it doesn't have its own texture. Charles and Steve did this purposefully, and as it is their game, they have that right. As far as I know, this will not be changed and probably cannot be changed due to limitations in the current game engine. So although you may lament its absence, no amount of request, demand or other communication technique will get it added. If you add your desire to the thread about what the future game engine should include, I am sure that there are others with the same desire. As for me, I don't want more visual elements added as I often have enough trouble keeping track of all the units in some scenarios. I don't need several hundred or even a thousand dead bodies strewn across the landscape as my middle aged little mind can't handle the complexity... [ October 25, 2002, 07:21 AM: Message edited by: kmead ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 There's a relevant difference between CMBO and CMBB in this regard. In CMBB squads can start out at less that full strength. Unfortunately the strength window doesn't show you how many guys the squad started out with, so it can take a lot of extra work to see who took casualties and when. Having the dead guy on the ground after every casualty would not just be eye candy in CMBB, it would be informational. [ October 25, 2002, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: CMplayer ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigurd Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 CMplayer, BTS could solve this problem (which is annoying me too) in another way : for example by tweaking the fighting/casualties window in the unit info screen (at the bottom of the screen). By adding a third category, or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Originally posted by Sigurd: CMplayer, BTS could solve this problem (which is annoying me too) in another way : for example by tweaking the fighting/casualties window in the unit info screen (at the bottom of the screen). By adding a third category, or whatever.Yes, it could be done with some variant of 7ok/10 5+ (7 okay out of ten and 5 total casualties) for a (normally) 12 man squad which started out with two casualties and has taken 3 more since the beginning of the game. Or sumfink. If that makes any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 i want pus and oozing wounds to ooze pus on the batelfield and i red this boke right were guyz had pus right and no toes and like that right so pus shuld be in also wen they lose toes they shuld put toes on the batelfield and ded hosres and stuff right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Well I think bodies would be immersive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Originally posted by CMplayer: Well I think bodies would be immersive.Only if they're on water tiles. Bada-bing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renaud Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Bodies smodies. I want basic stuff like white water plinks/spouts when shells or small-arms fire hits water. Ren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeKitten Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 I think I know a way where they could show the bodies of soldiers and not suffer performance loss at all. I think I have to agree that they would be a visual helper...letting you see quickly how much damge you're dishing out to an enemy squad, etc. They could have bodies displayed using the same method as shell craters. If I'm not mistake, craters are just flat sprites pasted on the ground. Well, you could have several different sprites for different soldier types that just lay flat on the ground. I think this would be great. Any comments from battlefront on this? [ October 25, 2002, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: FreeKitten ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchildstein (ii) Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 can we have a little hut here and there with lile marlene playing inside?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted October 25, 2002 Share Posted October 25, 2002 Originally posted by FreeKitten: I think I know a way where they could show the bodies of soldiers and not suffer performance loss at all. I think I have to agree that they would be a visual helper...letting you see quickly how much damge you're dishing out to an enemy squad, etc. They could have bodies displayed using the same method as shell craters. If I'm not mistake, craters are just flat sprites pasted on the ground. Well, you could have several different sprites for different soldier types that just lay flat on the ground. I think this would be great. Any comments from battlefront on this?IRRC Steve from BTS once said that even the crater sprites slow down the performance. It has something to do with VRAM, and CPU/GPU load. I'm not 100% sure about it, it's a long time ago, and I'm an very old man (33). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeKitten Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 I'm sure it would take more CPU power to display even a soldier sprite. But it wouldn't take as much as a 3D model of a soldier on the ground. It would just be 2 polys per soldier sprite (I think, 2 polys to make a rectangle) :confused: . I think most computers could handle it, and if they couldn't, there should be an option to turn them on and off, seeing as how there is no major advantage to having them displayed. I was hoping this would be added for CM. I love these little extras. After all, we all love to see our enemies wrecked, smoking/burning tanks lying dead on the battle field. They're almost a kind of visual trophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Errr, has anyone here thought of battlefield clutter, or just read kmead's post to the end? No? Maybe you should? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeKitten Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Originally posted by Andreas: Errr, has anyone here thought of battlefield clutter, or just read kmead's post to the end? No? Maybe you should?I see your point, but that's why it should be an OPTION. Just like warning lables is an option. I don't ever play with warning labels on, too much clutter for me. I prefer to watch the action over a few times even to the point where I'll watch each unit the whole 60 seconds. And that right there is another point, this isn't a twitch game so sorting out the battle instantly shouldn't be a worry. This is a war sim, not Martha Stewart's Tidy Countryside simulation where bodies and things you don't want to see are instaly tidied up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolloff Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Unfortunately it´s not just going to be a question of adding a couple of additional polygons. What for example is supposed to happen under extreme fog of war. You´d need additional algorithms which determine the probability that the dead body that´s left behind or is supposed to be shown is allowed to be displayed or not. There are tons more of what/if/then type of questions that could get asked and for each question new solutions and code changes which certainly aren´t easy to implement would be necessary. Nolloff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franko Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 I think there should be more bodies to show how many times we've beat this subject to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolloff Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 "That is not dead, which can eternal lie. Yet with strange aeons, even death my die". Guess who knew the secrets of forum threads long before the invention of the Internet. Cheers Nolloff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Originally posted by manchildstein II: can we have a little hut here and there with lile marlene playing inside?...Now THAT is a good idea. Do you know of any good links to wwII era music? (for free download) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Try this: Musiche e Canti d'Epoca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 Thanks! Why is it that every time I hear the March of the Foreign Legion I want to do pushups? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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