DaveN Posted February 2, 2002 Share Posted February 2, 2002 I received the game about a month ago and have been playing it quite regularly..it is the best wargame I've played so far but it has some very irritating quirks which I will list.. 1.tank gunners track targets that they shouldn't and they end up getting their butt blown up when a real target comes along and they take 20 years turning their gun around(the tigers are the worst) 2.when I give an order to a squad to go to a certain place they continue to walk even when they run into enemy fire "hey you schmucks, hit the dirt and fire back" 3.In operations, why the hell after each battle are all of my troops moved out of positions I fought hard to defend?..it ticks me off when I have a panzerfest dude hidin nicely behind some bocage next to a road where the tanks are coming and after that battle hes moved and theres no way to get him back there.. 4.what is up with these piats?..those little pieces of crap might be able to damage to a track but they always seem to keep penetrating the hulls of King Tigers at alarming rates 5.I think the AI is cheating because their spotters always seem to have a line of sight to my most valuable equipement 6.whats up with this mortar guy?..seems like hes dropping dirt balls on the enemy causing no damage that I can see.. 7.I think if a 150mm HE round drops right in the middle of a squad, there should be alot more than just 2 out of 12 killed.. 8.why do some of my squads stop firing?..they have a clear target but I have to go back to them after each turn and manually target for them. I think thats about it : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted February 2, 2002 Share Posted February 2, 2002 most of what you have posted has been discussed... others here might address your concerns "1.tank gunners track targets that they shouldn't and they end up getting their butt blown up when a real target comes along and they take 20 years turning their gun around(the tigers are the worst)" This situation is NOW a heckuva LOT BETTER than it was when the game first came out Trust us on that one. The Piat/zook issue may actually be debateable, seems there has been some good historical info that may have come to light since the game was produced and then patched (you are using the v1.12 patch aren't you?) that indicates that some of the piat and zook penetrations on the sloped flanks of the KT are somewhat "questionable". 4.what is up with these piats?..those little pieces of crap might be able to damage to a track but they always seem to keep penetrating the hulls of King Tigers at alarming rates Other than that it is STILL the ONLY game I play and the best WWII combat sim I have ever seen! -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medlinke Posted February 2, 2002 Share Posted February 2, 2002 It would be useless for me to write a response to EACH and EVERY one of your complaints. Basically it comes down to this: This is a HISTORICAL WARGAME. What does that mean? 1. That the setting is in a historical war. So the units, etc. are close APPROXIMATIONS of their real counterparts. 2. That it is a GAME. This means that those APPROXIMATIONS are made to balance play in some way. For example, your PIAT "beef." In my experience KTs vs. PIATS is usually no contest unless your KT is RIGHT NEXT to the thing. A good way to not have the claimed rates of success for the PIATS is to scout forward with your infantry who can devastate PIAT teams. Another is your Turret rotation problem. At the start of a game...SCOUT. You'll find that when you go blasting around a map using your tanks like those huge AT-ATs from Star Wars you'll get spanked and the turret rotation speed is a scale model of how fast the turret actually moved. Basically you must get more experience playing. There are some great threads on how to play the game historically and play the game well that will clear up most if not all of your "major beefs about CM." I know this is going to hurt. It's not a flame. But...it's not the game...it's you. It was me, and it was a lot of other people before and after me. Playing skillfully takes a while, it takes practice and even after I've been involved in over 200 engagements (not many compared to most people who've owned the game as long as I have) I still make glaring mistakes. Stick with it, and remember this...SCOUT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equinox Posted February 2, 2002 Share Posted February 2, 2002 Originally posted by DaveN: 3.In operations, why the hell after each battle are all of my troops moved out of positions I fought hard to defend?..it ticks me off when I have a panzerfest dude hidin nicely behind some bocage next to a road where the tanks are coming and after that battle hes moved and theres no way to get him back there..Hmmm, have we heard anything about this getting improved on for CM:BB? I stopped playing Advance Operations alltogether because of this bug. Also, go read the Extreme FAQ, you'll find some of your beefs being answered there. Cover arcs will help tank turret rotation, Move to Contact orders will help with your infantry problem, etc etc. [ February 02, 2002, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: Equinox ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledge59 Posted February 2, 2002 Share Posted February 2, 2002 Most of your points will disappear with more experience. Future incarnations of CM will address what little remains. This game is a dream come true due to the state of technology and the ingeniousness of its trustworthy makers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted February 3, 2002 Share Posted February 3, 2002 Oh, and the AI is unable to cheat. Having arty falling down on your positions doesn't necesarrily mean the AI's FO has a LOS to that position. He may be targeting blind. You should be able to make that out by determining the tightness of the pattern of incoming shells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow 1st Hussars Posted February 3, 2002 Share Posted February 3, 2002 OMG! BTS! THIS GAME IS TOO REALISTIC! DO SOMEFINK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted February 4, 2002 Share Posted February 4, 2002 Originally posted by DaveN: I received the game about a month ago and have been playing it quite regularly..it is the best wargame I've played so far but it has some very irritating quirks which I will list.. 1.tank gunners track targets that they shouldn't and they end up getting their butt blown up when a real target comes along and they take 20 years turning their gun around(the tigers are the worst) heavy german tanks generally have slow turrents. make sure to keep those sides covered or you will always get hit there. (in the game and in real life every opponent is gonna have a hard-on for getting his armor to shoot at your tank's side, especially if you got tigers. don't let them) 2.when I give an order to a squad to go to a certain place they continue to walk even when they run into enemy fire "hey you schmucks, hit the dirt and fire back" they are following your orders to move to a certain place. the closest to the "hey you schmucks, hit the dirt and fire back" command is the sneak command. it will make units stop and fire back if they get shot at. 3.In operations, why the hell after each battle are all of my troops moved out of positions I fought hard to defend?..it ticks me off when I have a panzerfest dude hidin nicely behind some bocage next to a road where the tanks are coming and after that battle hes moved and theres no way to get him back there.. i haven't played many ops,so i'll have others explain 4.what is up with these piats?..those little pieces of crap might be able to damage to a track but they always seem to keep penetrating the hulls of King Tigers at alarming rates again, not sure about whether a piat could kill a kt so ill let someone else talk about it. 5.I think the AI is cheating because their spotters always seem to have a line of sight to my most valuable equipement the ai has the same fog of war as you. it may be targeting your sound contacts. do you have los on them? 6.whats up with this mortar guy?..seems like hes dropping dirt balls on the enemy causing no damage that I can see.. the mortar is better for suppression than killing. 7.I think if a 150mm HE round drops right in the middle of a squad, there should be alot more than just 2 out of 12 killed.. sometimes ppl get lucky? i bet their underpants are a different color though... 8.why do some of my squads stop firing?..they have a clear target but I have to go back to them after each turn and manually target for them. a squad might decide to conserve ammo if they are getting low, or consider it's affect on the enemy as not worth the ammo, or figure if there is only one panicking, routing guy left, there is no point to waste more ammo on it. I think thats about it : )whew! lots more typing for me than usual... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGMB Posted February 4, 2002 Share Posted February 4, 2002 Soldier, I've got an operation under construction, that should put the life back into ops. I'll try and get it to der kessel as soon as I can.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted February 4, 2002 Share Posted February 4, 2002 Originally posted by DaveN: I received the game about a month ago and have been playing it quite regularly..it is the best wargame I've played so far but it has some very irritating quirks which I will list.. 6.whats up with this mortar guy?..seems like hes dropping dirt balls on the enemy causing no damage that I can see.. 7.I think if a 150mm HE round drops right in the middle of a squad, there should be alot more than just 2 out of 12 killed.. 8.why do some of my squads stop firing?..they have a clear target but I have to go back to them after each turn and manually target for them. I think thats about it : )Without specialized Grog knowledge, but using common sense, much game play, and info gained on this forum garnered from reading more and posting less: 6. on map mortars can vary wildely in their effectiveness, and depends much on their size. They are extremely effective for knocking out guns, other mortars, and can do some serious damage to larger squads that are pinned or not moving. They're far more useful for 'suppressing' or disrupting units like MGs than they are for knocking them out. Keep in mind that while you see 1 to 3 little figures standing side by side, they represent a larger number of men that are dispersed and seeking cover. 7. Same thing applies. When a shell this size drops in on troops, they're not 3 figures forming a mini-phalanx. They're 8-12 individuals spread out, seeking cover, and taking advantage of what they can. I might add, I've had 150mm shells come in, even on units dug-in in heavy cover, and almost entirely wipe out the squad. I've also had them come in and only knock out a few individuals. A shell exploding 'directly' over a units representation may indicate a brutal concusive experience for everyone in the area, but the shrapnel may have patterned out to less effect. Also, when you've seen "150mm shells directly hit a squad", what were the conditions? Marsh, snow, wet ground? All of these will absorb both concussion and shrapnel. Treeburst? These can be devestating, but there's no guarantee. Ground hit within woods or such? The surrounding trees are going to aborb and cut down shrapnel to some extant. In other words, you need to consider all the factors that impact the artillery strike, and the unit receiving fire. Also, don't think of your unit as 'three guys crouched in a little triangle' and the artillery hit as having landed between trooper #1 and trooper #2. Remember, you're seeing a graphical representation of a Real World situation, not a 150mm artillery shell landing between two soldiers. 8. Your soldiers stop firing because they're reacting to perceived threats, ammunition concerns, personal exposure and survival perceptions, and general hoo-ha. The TacAI will often manifest itself in ways that may seem obscure to you, or even foolish. Usually, they are not. During any 60 second turn new targets will manifest, old targets will register as less threatening, your troopers will take stock of their ammo, they will enter different stages of threat perception (you may give them clear orders to shoot the ****e out of Unit X, but as they come under fire themselves as a result, they might move from 'Alert' to 'Cautious' to 'Pinned'; remember, when they're firing at others, they're drawing fire themselves, and reacting to its intensity. If you want units that hammer away at a target regardless of ammo status, personal losses, and new threats, than you want units that are completely mindless and disposable. For every 'what the hell is wrong with you people?!' decision the Tac AI makes during a 60 second round, there are several situations in which it correctly countermands orders based on previous turn (or simply stupid) thinking, and causes units to respond to updated conditions. Mind, we've all seen hair-pulling and garment rending behaviour by squads that simply make poor choices. Keep in mind that you're viewing an entire, almost strategic level input of information. Your squad is only concerned with their petty, local situation. You and I might be screaming: If that bloody squad makes it into cover, the whole left flank is going to dissolve, you halfwits!' The Tac AI, taking into account your soldiers' position is saying: 'bloody hell, every time we nip up to fire at that lot, we're drawing heavy fire. And we're down to (abstracted level) of shots per man, and we're a bit nervous about those swine we just saw swanning about across the way in that pile of rubble.' Remember, to some extant (and to a lesser extant than any game I've ever played), what you're actually seeing is a bit of an abstraction on reality (which the game is tracking in a more thorough-going way than what you see). For the rest of it, isn't life awful when things don't go your way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PVLLVS MAXIMVS Posted February 4, 2002 Share Posted February 4, 2002 Originally posted by DaveN: 8.why do some of my squads stop firing?..they have a clear target but I have to go back to them after each turn and manually target for them. I think thats about it : )wow. Its been such a long time since Ive seen one of these posts... About number 8 : Its been my experience that the tacAI almost always pickes better targets than I would myself, with the exception of AT crews (who have a tendency to fire when they have crap chance to hit). In recent months Ive taken to never giving my men fire orders at all, not even tanks usually. I just let them pick a target, and go at it. I always to better that way then when I try to micro-manage their actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted February 4, 2002 Share Posted February 4, 2002 Originally posted by PVLLVS MAXIMVS: About number 8 : Its been my experience that the tacAI almost always pickes better targets than I would myself, with the exception of AT crews (who have a tendency to fire when they have crap chance to hit). I used to think this about AT teams too but this is in tune with what Seanachi was saying about the "big picture" you are seeing and your AT team which might as well be wearing blinders. To you, your schreck team has 5 rounds of ammo and wasting even one of them on an enemy squad is beyond stupid. They hardly ever do any damage and usually only manage to suppress. Besides, you were saving them for when AFV's come around. To that team who has an enemy firing at them from 80 meters away, your grand strategy plan doesn't mean butkis to them. They are only concerned with saving their own ass and if that means exhausting their supply of schrecks, then so be it. It can be exhasperating, yes, but I think it makes sense viewing it in real life. I would also assume that a vet AT team or higher would resist firing their AT weapon at an enemy squad for as long as possible. They understand they're needed for more important duty elsewhere and will try to preserve the ammo, but only as long as it doesn't jeopardize their survival. [ February 04, 2002, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: Colonel_Deadmarsh ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts