Pkunzipper Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 I'm quite new to CM system. I like the game (tried the demo), but I wanted to get other people opinion about turn system... In your opinion is it right to be able to think next moves for more than 60 seconds for a minute long turn? [ December 16, 2003, 05:13 AM: Message edited by: Pkunzipper ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wisbech_lad Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Well, yes. Given the number of units in a typical scenario, I would say it is OK to take more than a minute to think of your orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 If you would lead one unit only, then realistically you should not take more than 60 seconds. But since you can be leading dozens or even hundreds of units in CM, you do need more time. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin Red Line Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 It really depends on the situation. It ranges from nothing (just hitting go) to one hour or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty's Double Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Playing TCP/IP you can set a timer for the orders phase, and to me it makes it a different game. Playing email against another human, I usually take up to 10 minutes (for a 1500-2000 point game), though some turns are much quicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Alkema Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Originally posted by Monty's Double: Playing TCP/IP you can set a timer for the orders phase, and to me it makes it a different game. Playing email against another human, I usually take up to 10 minutes (for a 1500-2000 point game), though some turns are much quicker. On the other hand, I can take longer than that just to review the previous turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Tittles Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Is the question: 1. Is it acceptable that you plan out moves that last longer than sixty seconds? That is, the string of commands can run past the minute turn? or 2. Is it acceptable to take only one minute to plan each units turn? or 3. something else? Since an unlimited number of microcommands can be given, and they are editable later if need be (either deleted or adjusted, ..except human wave); what does this represent? I think all commands should only be either deleted or have a very slight adjustment (like 5 meters). Perhaps if only ONE deletion was possible (the last string of a multileg string), then maybe players would not plan out so much into the future. I would actually like to see a turn length based on commands. This would work as follows: Each side plots moves. The side that plots the shortest 'orders' length sets the length of turn. The computer makes a comparison of commands given (including fire orders) and number of units under command (special penalties for giving orders to units out of command) Heres an example using a meeting engagement. One side (A) plots dozens of moves, some units getting half a dozen strings each. Hes making a big gamble on a rush (and he is investing into future time as we will soon see). The other side ( only plots splitting a squad and move-to-contact/hide a half squad 10 meters. Turn length is then based on the time for the squad splitting/contacting/hiding. In this case, lets say its 10 seconds. The movie plays but stops after 10 seconds. The half squad was able to see many of the rushing units and the player ( can now decide if he wants to plot moves based on this information. If he plots many moves, he may lose the initiative and move the clock up. He decides to run a company HQ up to bolster the area under threat. He also rotates some units and hides others with covered arc commands covering the threatened area. His actions push the clock up another 15 seconds. The other player (A), seeing the small 10 second initial 'tick', now has to decide to either follow through with his rush, cancel last legs of units string-of-threads, plan more moves, adjust those last legs, etc. Perhaps he should have another option, double clicking a HQ and then giving a Halt order to those units highlighted(who may become pinned from this..Get Down!). If he plans more moves, he will be committing himself even more. He decides that he has not developed a good base of fire and decides to Halt those units he can that are in the open. Halting the units then pushes his clock back. Lets say he WAS at 135 seconds but now he has returned to 45 seconds. The computer then resolves the time comparison and plays the next 15 seconds. Player ( sees many of the previously seen units stop moving and become symbols or lose ID etc. His only spotting unit, the hidden half squad, does not supply much information of what has happened. The enemy has appeared to make a small rush but its unclear what moved. He decides discretion is the better part of winning and withdraws the half squad back to its other half squad so they can recombine in a heavy building. He also orders a platoon HQ to sneak from one position to another so that it may spot for an onboard mortar on this threatened area better. The company HQ is still on its way but a leg at the end of his string of commands is deleted and the remaining one modified slightly. He decides that his SP gun is mispositioned from the main direction of the threat and gives him a hunt order. This was a mistake as we shall soon see. Player (A) decides to sneak a platoon forward. He double clicks a platoon HQ and gives the platoon a gang-order to sneak forward 15 meters. since he has used a gang-order, he gets a break on the clock. His non-micromanagement is rewarded. The computer then compares the new orders and adjusts player (A) to 60 seconds and player ( to 75 seconds! The main reason? Player ( combined armor moves with infantry moves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3333cr333tz Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 I think its generally accepted, that turns take however long you want depending on what you agreed on with your opponant. When I play TC/IP which is all the time with a couple of guys, the goal is to be as quick as possible. Take note of the as possible ;p We usually allow for 2-4 reviews of the movie depending on the size of the battle and then get down to business. I think maybe the longest turns sometimes take more than 10 min. I feel however if you are intending to play TC/IP, you are looking to play the game at a certain pace. As such you probably will make mistakes, but so will your opponant. In the end I think it comes down to what you and your opponant think is right. If you want an actual clock for your turns, or do you just wanna go and take your time if you need it. Find out from your opponant what they want, then compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Usually people get in trouble by planning TOO far ahead instead of too little. Squads will often be directed up the road & across the field & over the bridge & up the next road, only to have a Tiger show up 30 seconds into the first turn sending all that intricate planning down the drain. :eek: Playing CMAK is like painting. You can start out with broad brushstrokes but soon you have to settle down and work on the increasingly fine details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Once opposing forces are in contact and shooting at each other, I spend half an hour to an hour on each turn of a 1000-point game, more or less evenly divided between watching the movie from the point of view of different units, both friendly and enemy, and plotting the next turn's moves. Not entirely realistic, I suppose, but that's how I like to do it. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: Once opposing forces are in contact and shooting at each other, I spend half an hour to an hour on each turn of a 1000-point game, more or less evenly divided between watching the movie from the point of view of different units, both friendly and enemy, and plotting the next turn's moves. Not entirely realistic, I suppose, but that's how I like to do it. Michael My goodness you're anal. Kitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3333cr333tz Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 I hopes thats PBEM not TC/IP ;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 I have playe a lot of tCP/IP both network and over the Web. Certainly in CMBO a minute a turn for up to 1500 pts was a blast. Given that CM suffers from borg spotting this evens up the perfect with the imperfect and makes IMO a more realistic game. It becomes , like rule war, litteres with errors and compensating errors. The real beauty is the number of games you get in an evening [not ot mention the laughs if you can watch two mates chasing and hiding from shadows] The other thing I think you benefit from is the tempo where because you see movement every other minute or so you can more easily appreciate the speed of troops and tanks over the ground. It has been very useful training when doing 3000pters [pbem] Please try a Deadly Affair [cmbb] at 1 minute turns it really comes alive. In general CMBB being slightly more complex 3 minutes for 1500 or 2000 is better. Timer suspended for set-up period though as you really need to get your plan and troop dispositions fixed because once the clock is running it becomes difficult to get the time for rational re-appraisal of the plan. It is speed chess versus tournament chess - speed chess has the adrenalin rush .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Where's Michael Emrys? I was expecting a counterattack. =( Kitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Originally posted by Kitty: Where's Michael Emrys? I was expecting a counterattack. =( Kitty He's still plotting his comeback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Originally posted by Kitty: My goodness you're anal. Interested? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Originally posted by Kitty: Where's Michael Emrys? I was expecting a counterattack. =(Sorry. I've been busy all day and well into the evening. I would not intentionally neglect you, my dear. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Kitty: Where's Michael Emrys? I was expecting a counterattack. =( Kitty He's still plotting his comeback. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Kitty: My goodness you're anal. Interested? Michael </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: Once opposing forces are in contact and shooting at each other, I spend half an hour to an hour on each turn of a 1000-point game, more or less evenly divided between watching the movie from the point of view of different units, both friendly and enemy, and plotting the next turn's moves. Not entirely realistic, I suppose, but that's how I like to do it. Michael I'm surprised that, as drunk as I normally picture you being, you're actually able to absorb enough of any given turn to work out orders, let alone issue them in 30 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Originally posted by Seanachai: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Emrys: Once opposing forces are in contact and shooting at each other, I spend half an hour to an hour on each turn of a 1000-point game, more or less evenly divided between watching the movie from the point of view of different units, both friendly and enemy, and plotting the next turn's moves. Not entirely realistic, I suppose, but that's how I like to do it. Michael I'm surprised that, as drunk as I normally picture you being, you're actually able to absorb enough of any given turn to work out orders, let alone issue them in 30 minutes. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Originally posted by Kitty: Leave him alone and wear . . . Mask of Shame Number 4 Kitty Sod that for a lark. I want Number 15, The Mask of Shame...For Men. Sounds like a new aftershave. Plus, I could do a mean Groucho Marx in that mask! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Originally posted by Seanachai: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Kitty: Leave him alone and wear . . . Mask of Shame Number 4 Kitty Sod that for a lark. I want Number 15, The Mask of Shame...For Men. Sounds like a new aftershave. Plus, I could do a mean Groucho Marx in that mask! </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Originally posted by Kitty: YESSsssssssssssssss, envy Number 15...ENVY IT!!! You will never wear it as long as I live!!!! >=D Kitty I wish for no contest of wills between you and I, Kitty. I will wear Number 15, Mask of Shame...For Men. I know that you, your arm clad in the finest, shimmering samite, will offer it to me. Oh, and as regards the whole 'should one issue orders in 60 seconds for a 60 second turn' thing: Are you whacked? The average individual takes 60 seconds to decide what to do in the next 60 seconds. Do you really think that the actions of 100s of individuals and 10s of vehicles should be arrived at in one minute? This isn't the American Government deciding foreign policy, you know. Some thought should go into directing the course of so many lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Originally posted by Seanachai: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Emrys: Once opposing forces are in contact and shooting at each other, I spend half an hour to an hour on each turn of a 1000-point game, more or less evenly divided between watching the movie from the point of view of different units, both friendly and enemy, and plotting the next turn's moves. Not entirely realistic, I suppose, but that's how I like to do it. Michael I'm surprised that, as drunk as I normally picture you being, you're actually able to absorb enough of any given turn to work out orders, let alone issue them in 30 minutes. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts