David Chapuis Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Redwolf, you posted in this thread that the small flak and trench defense was unbeatable. Is that still possible in CMAK? I was also wondering how you setup your defense. Trenches in open or covered terrain. How did you stop inf advancing? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David I Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 David, I read this thread, but I think there is something to keep in mind: A German 1944 Infantry Division had a total of 12 20mm AA guns in it's TOE. Panzer Divisions had consideralbly more, but many of them were on trucks or Half-Tracks. I'm not sure what the Russian TOE called for as far as AA but I bet it wasn't much more. There were plenty of independent AA battalions in all the armies, but guess what? Their primary job was shooting at...wait for it... Airplanes! Exploring gamey tactics is not my cup of tea. DavidI 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer76 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Originally posted by David I: Exploring gamey tactics is not my cup of tea. DavidI Then move along, nothing for you to see here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Chapuis Posted December 21, 2004 Author Share Posted December 21, 2004 Originally posted by David I: David, There were plenty of independent AA battalions in all the armies, but guess what? Their primary job was shooting at...wait for it... Airplanes! Why the condescending attitude? Why do you care how I play my CM games? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I'm trying to remember if the date of Redwolf's post was before or after the CMBB final patch. For awhile a gun sunk into a trench was practically immune from attack (especially nasty when using 75mm PaKs). It was considered a bug and fixed in a patch. I may have fought against light flak guns in trenches in CMAK. The fact that I'm having some difficulty recalling indicates that the defense didn't make much of an impression on me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 It will still work. The spotting of firing guns is purely decided by distance, and is still so in CMAK. There is no random factor. If you keep the attacker outside that distance he can't do much, as the small FlaK guns are so cheap he can't afford to buy artillery to do it. The other thing coming into play is the fairly predictable gun damage. So you can just buy enough small FlaK guns and bang the hell out of every AFV showing up. Green Russian small AA guns are very cheap. The thing that might the attack from that attack fail in CMAK is that the FlaK guns, even the 37mm ones, are pretty much useless against infantry. They neither kill nor supress, not anywhere near what a MG does in CMBB and CMAK. Note to newcomes: read that other thread first before flaming me for being gamey. That thread was about coming up with a gamey defense and I'm tired of people jumping on me without reading what I wrote in first place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I'd guess you could walk a sniper pretty close to the gun line. Possibly about 70m away (a wild guess) who would see your Flaks...Or expose your AFV's to one part of the trench at a time and walk area fire along it. Or even area fire the whole trench. The thing not to do would be to ignore them or come in on high ground. my €0.025. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkiviadis Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Light FLAK was used by all armies for anti-infantry work, I've read numerous accounts of the Wehrmacht doing so on all fronts. And the American quad-50 caliber Light FLAK systems were known during WW2 as "Meat Choppers" - I've read accounts of them busting up German infantry attacks, yes they are tough to kill when intrenched, most weapons systems are when protected. Don't see anything gamey here, except perhaps the smell of sore losers when surprised. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37mm Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I smell a challenge here... *checks armpits* ... no sorry don't mind me 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer76 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Originally posted by David Chapuis: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by David I: David, There were plenty of independent AA battalions in all the armies, but guess what? Their primary job was shooting at...wait for it... Airplanes! Why the condescending attitude? Why do you care how I play my CM games? </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_the_wino Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Originally posted by David Chapuis: Why the condescending attitude? Why do you care how I play my CM games? BECAUSE YOU UNWASHED CRETIN, YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG. DON'T YOU SEE!!!! I only play PBEM dressed in the uniform of the troops I am playing, complete with full compliment of weapons. To hell with game sound effects, there is nothing better than the sound of a Enfield Mk IV blasted off 6-8 times in a turn....plus the smoke really adds to the effect. Too bad the missus won't work the MG-42 after the cops came by for the 7th time. They were pretty stern on the no-MG policy. Party poopers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Originally posted by David Chapuis: I was also wondering how you setup your defense. Trenches in open or covered terrain. How did you stop inf advancing? Trenches with guns in the open, as far back as possible, obviously far back from any cover the attacker can use. Probably right at the back map edge. Once the guns fire they getting spotted has few/nothing to do with the cover they are in, only with distance. The infantry is a problem in CMAK because the FlaK guns are now utterly useless against infantry. I'm actually disgusted, I only recently found that a 40mm Bofors doesn't do jack against advancing infantry, it neither causes casualties nor does it supress. So you would need a few HMGs now. If you are British, the 3" mortar can come in handy to break up single deliberate advances. And maybe a few AP minefields. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I've watched my German infantry platoons in trenches get massacred by 155 mm American VT artillery fire. I suspect that VT artillery would put a big hurt on the entrenched flak gun defense, too. Of course CM's Borg spotting would play a major role in locating the flak guns. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cthulhu Dreams Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Flak guns are virtually invisable, but I've nnoticed something about them and trenches - if the flak gun is in a trench, and generates a "sound contact" but the trench has not been spotted, a 1x1M square of the trench is exposed on the map, in the correct location. Just fire your DF weapons or mortars and that and voila! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Chapuis Posted December 22, 2004 Author Share Posted December 22, 2004 Originally posted by Panzer76: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by David Chapuis: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by David I: David, There were plenty of independent AA battalions in all the armies, but guess what? Their primary job was shooting at...wait for it... Airplanes! Why the condescending attitude? Why do you care how I play my CM games? </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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