Some things I learned on my trip to France (now with pics!)

[Runyan99]

Hello from Caen. I thought I would share a few random thoughts and observations, for the amusement and education of anyone who cares to read it.

1) There was such a thing as the MP40 II. I saw it at the Musee d'Invalides in Paris. It was made some time around 1943 to combat the fire superiority of Russians equipped with the Ppsh. It featured to magazines side by side, which both fed into the weapon, thereby doubling the ammo capacity of the weapon.

2) French keyboards are much different from English keyboards. I guess I should have expected it, but it is nonetheless awkward.

3) The Soviet 120mm mortar is a huge piece of equipment. It does not look man portable at all. I sure would have hated to be on one of those crews. How did they move that thing around?

4) Every Frenchman smokes. In fact, I am convinced that most of them inhale oxygen only through a cigarette, and I wonder how the French got along at all before tobacco arrived in the 1700s.

5) Napoleon's tomb is the grandest I have ever seen. The dome and the chapel are like some kind of amazing Roman temple. It's like a memorial to a fallen god.

6) A PzII turret is really quite small. You could fit one on your coffee table.

All for now. I'll have more to add soon. My Bovington thread has dropped out, but I'll still be at the snackbar at noon if any CMers want to chat over a Coke. How will you pick me out of the crowd? Gee, I dunno. That's part of the challenge I guess.

Aurevoir, or something.

[ May 28, 2004, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: Runyan99 ]

[flamingknives]

1) Woohoo! jam city

2) Sounds very French to me

3) IIRC, they had wheels.

4) It's to ensure that there is always a smoke screnn in case they need to run away. An added side effect is that it smells more than they do

5) A man who could make the French win wars? Must be something special.

6) A PzII is small because it has a smaller French tank inside. an R-35, I think.

The snack bar? At noon? On tankfest day? You'll have trouble getting in past all the sardines trying to get out, on account of it being too cramped.

[stikkypixie]

Don't get me started on the keyhoard, i have azerty at home (which i have used all my life) and now at school i have to use qwerty keyboards.

The result? At school i type like i would type on an azerty keyboard and at home like an qwerty keyboard.

My fragile mind isn't made for this :mad: .

[Sergei]

As flamingknives said, the 120mm heavy mortar comes with a wheeled "carriage" which goes under the plate, which enables it to be pulled/pushed on road by two men. It could be moved longer distances towed behind a vehicle like any gun.

[Andreas]

[Thin Red Line]

Originally posted by Runyan99:

5) Napoleon's tomb is the grandest I have ever seen. The dome and the chapel are like some kind of amazing Roman temple. It's like a memorial to a fallen god.

It was actually a church (built by Louis XIV) later converted into a a tomb for Napoleon.

6) A PzII turret is really quite small. You could fit one on your coffee table.

Where did you see one ? In Normandy ?

[Bogdan]

Originally posted by Runyan99:

4) Every Frenchman smokes. In fact, I am convinced that most of them inhale oxygen only through a cigarette, and I wonder how the French got along at all before tobacco arrived in the 1700s.

No, some don't. A few months ago, tobacco price increased dramatically and now, I've noticed it, there are many less people who smoke here. Things are changing, and smokers are progressivly considered as "cancers on feet"...

5) Napoleon's tomb is the grandest I have ever seen. The dome and the chapel are like some kind of amazing Roman temple. It's like a memorial to a fallen god.

You're not so far from the reality

Aurevoir, or something.

It's "au revoir" : good bye.

Have a good trip in France ! Enjoy wine, gastronomy and Normandy battlefield ! :cool:

[Michael Emrys]

Someone once said that Napoleon was the only man in post-classical times that could have gone in Plutarch's Lives. YMMV.

Michael

[Runyan99]

TRL - There is a PzII turret at the d'Invalides. Also a French Char turret, maybe from the B1. Actually though, out of the whole museum, I got the biggest kicks out of a complete MG-34 setup with tripod and ammo that I could get very close to, and a US .50 cal and 60mm mortar set up on a table.

A couple more items today.

7) McDonald's has invaded France, but Budweiser and Starbucks have not.

8) The Caen memorial museum, which my trusted guidebook had listed as the best war museum in Normandy, is in fact a bit of a disappointment. It was described as 'brilliant', but I found it less than. There is almost no gear here, but a Typhoon, a Sherman and a Katyusha (both of which you cannot get a good look at), and a few odds and ends. In fact, I found the memorial a bit of a tangle, and went through most of it backwards. There is precious little here about D-Day or the battle of Normandy itself.

I did have an excellent lunch here however, complete with Zin, Bordeaux and Calvados. I made the uncultured mistake of inadvertently skipping the first course of patee/fromage/whatnot, and was therefore one course ahead of all the French folk at my table up until the cafè course. Embarrasing, but I am just an American, and have to be forgiven such things.

Oh well, off to Bayeux tomorrow, and a week of serious battlefield tours from Battlebus. I'll keep in touch.

Au revoir.

[Michael Dorosh]

The Canadian Forces have adopted the French keyboard as well, in keeping with bilingualism, and it pains me no end to get a capital E with an accent over it instead of hitting the SHIFT key every time I try and type something at work.

[Runyan99]

Hey Dorosh.

You know anything about the Eglise St. Entienne (or spelled similarly) in the city center of Caen? It looks battle damaged, and is certainly not in current use. I understand the Canadians were the first to make it into, or at least to stay in Caen. Did they fight for the church? Is it bomb damage?

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Runyan99:

Hey Dorosh.

You know anything about the Eglise St. Entienne (or spelled similarly) in the city center of Caen? It looks battle damaged, and is certainly not in current use. I understand the Canadians were the first to make it into, or at least to stay in Caen. Did they fight for the church? Is it bomb damage?

On July 7, 467 planes from the RAF bombed the city, even though the majority of German forces were on the city's outskirts. 400 people were killed and thousands injured, few of them were soldiers.

There was fighting in Fauborg des Vaucelles, the suburb to the south, but I don't think there was much fighting in the city proper, at least not by the Canadians. 59th Staffordshire and 3rd "Iron" Divisions were the coming up from the north, the Canadians entered from the west after brutal fighting at Carpiquet and Buron-Gruchy-Authie.

[Kitty]

Yes, it's battle damage.

Kitty

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Kitty:

Yes, it's battle damage.

Kitty

Shouldn't you be in the kitchen right now?

[Kitty]

*flees*

Kitty

[Thin Red Line]

Originally posted by Runyan99:

Oh well, off to Bayeux tomorrow, and a week of serious battlefield tours from Battlebus. I'll keep in touch.

The Battle of Normandy Museum in Bayeux is the best around. Tons of various equiment and weapons.

[Hans]

The Bayuex is the best from the CM point of view in that area plus the (name skips from mind) in Brussels-TONS of WWII armour.

[Hans]

http://tanxheaven.com/fedcol/brussel/brussel.htm

Here is a link to it. Recommended

[Runyan99]

Originally posted by Thin Red Line:

The Battle of Normandy Museum in Bayeux is the best around. Tons of various equiment and weapons.

Yep, just spent a few hours there today. A good amount of gear, including a Sherman, an M10, a Brit tank (Churchill?) and a Hetzer. Lots of small arms inside, although many seem to be in poor condition. The movie in the museum, a compilation of newsreel-type footage wasn't bad. Overall, well worth the 5.50€ to get in.

Had my second proper French meal tonight. After several courses, generously fortified with alcohol, I can say the last thing I feel like doing is fighting off some kind of Teutonic Horde. Might explain some things.

[Hans]

I still remember exercises when we would move into areas the French armoured units in Germany had previously trained in, you could tell by the wine bottles and tins of pate...

[Hans]

Oh yeah one other note when ordering a meal don't mistake Riz for Ris.

[Runyan99]

I've taken tours of the Utah/Airborne areas and the Omaha sector, and I have a few things to add.

9) I went to Brecourt Manor, where Winters took a squad and knocked out the 105mm battery, a la Band of Brothers. The guns were not placed in prepared trenches, with reinforced sides, but were instead implaced along one 200 meter long hedgerow, and settled into a drainage ditch. The lack of prepared defensive positions meant that the position was invisible from the air, and intelligence was not aware of the battery before D-Day. Striking to me was that the assault reportedly took 3 1/2 hours...just to move down one hedgerow 200 meters long, albeit under MG fire from the next hedgerow, 150-200 meters to the rear. This revelation, while actually seeing the size of the ground fought over, again has me thinking a lot about the speed of actual WW2 combat, and the pace at which tactics typically played out. Remember, this action is still stuidied at West Point as an excellent example of fire and maneuver. Nobody ever told me that this action took 3 and a half hours (they apparently sent back for more ammunition several times during the engagement), and again has me wondering how well wargamers understand tactics as actually practiced. At the very least, the Band of Brothers episode is very decieving. This at a time when I was just starting to come around to the "20 minute chunks" school of thought.

10) A visit to places like La Fiere and Ste. Mere Eglise has given me a new appreciation of spatial dimensions in the Normandy battle. As an American, I tend to think in terms of large seperated spaces (my country is really big). Most of these villages are quite close together. Usually, a 5 minute drive is sufficient to move from one village to another, and the distances involved are not great. As another example, the defensive arrangement of the battery at Pointe du Hoc was suprisingly shallow, from north to south. I had pictured a larger area, based only on my looking at a map.

11) I don't think I like French cheese. I consider myself a fan of cheeses, and I expected to like French cheese, but I don't. I've tried at least three different kinds, and I find them best eaten with a liberal chaser of bread and wine.

12) The countryside is little changed from 1944, and most of the hedgerow country seems to be intact. From what I had read before arriving, I had expected to find large modern fields almost everywhere, and the hedgerow country almost gone. This isn't at all the case, especially when you get off the beaten track and into the country lanes. This is good news for those of us interested in the war, as there is still a great deal to see.

All for now. I'm doing a special tour tomorrow to see some hedgerows and some inland sights, so I'll report what I find.

Au revoir.

[With Clusters]

A history prof of mine once said there's nothing like visiting the ground where past events actually took place to get a 'real' understanding of what took place. He was talking about ancient history (relating a trip to Greece and Turkey he took), but I think the concept is universal.

The Brecourt Manor story is especially interesting, since I finally watched BoB for the first time just a few weeks ago (I've been out of the country for a long while). Thanks for the 'personal' information Runyan!

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Runyan99:

12) The countryside is little changed from 1944, and most of the hedgerow country seems to be intact. From what I had read before arriving, I had expected to find large modern fields almost everywhere, and the hedgerow country almost gone. This isn't at all the case, especially when you get off the beaten track and into the country lanes.

There is probably a good reason for that, quite apart from a reluctance to give up "outmoded" methods of farming. I suspect that because of the powerful storms that come sweeping in off the Atlantic and up the English Channel in that part of the world, wind erosion of soil could be a real problem without those windrows. A French Dust Bowl could have ensued, leaving most of its fertile topsoil deposited on Belgium and northern Germany.

Michael

[jwxspoon]

Very interesting observations Cory. Keep em coming!

jw