All Quiet On The Patch Front

[Moon]

Wouldn't that be a question you should have asked before taking jabs at us? And the answer is yes. Which shouldn't surprise you considering our patch and support history for CMBO and CMBB.

But actually the very question is wrong in itself - there is no link between "direct contact with heavy hitters" and "working on the patch". One is possible without the other. While we value customer feedback very much, we are still making all the calls like we want them, and we do rely on our internal beta testing team first and foremost. (Or did I miss the moment that "heavy hitters" took over the company? You bought a game, not a company share.)

For the umpteenth time (and the last time I am telling you that Michael Dorosh) - at the moment, we're mainly collecting information, even if we do not comment daily on stuff, and we will release a 1.02 patch, as planned, this year. Of course we would have liked to do it all sooner, but truth is that we're only six guys, including one programmer, and things take time.

Martin

[JonS]

Actually Moon, it was a question asked of you, sometime 'before [Dorosh] took a jab at you.'

The last patch came out nearly six months ago. Now you saying that the next patch could be another six months, and nary a word about what will be addressed in it. I'll bear that in mind next time someone reminds me about '[y]our patch and support history for CMBO and CMBB'

Regards

JonS

[ June 10, 2004, 05:32 AM: Message edited by: JonS ]

[JP Jones]

yeah, this game is soooooo unplayable in its current 1.01 state that I don't have any fun at all playing it every single day.

some of you guys need to lighten up and enjoy the wonderful game you have. It will get another patch sometime in the future, then it will be even better.

Until then, enjoy the game and stop complaining.

sheesh

[Panzer76]

CM is dying anyway now. CMBB was the last real new game, CMAK just being an extension, which has a shorter life time too I would guess. Seeing how it is nothing new in the CMBB sense.

While the CM series is THE WWII tactical game, I, and it seems like alot of others, are getting tired of the games. I hope CMX2 will come sooner than later, or I suspect it will be a very quiet forum indeed.

I am a strong supporter of BFC, but for me anyway, its soon time to put this dog to rest.

[Moon]

Originally posted by JonS:

Actually Moon, it was a question asked of you, sometime 'before [Dorosh] took a jab at you.'

What do you mean, JonS? Somebody asked me before if we had direct contact with the community about the patch? Nope, nobody did that, or if so, then I didn't see it. And the question about "what is happening with the patch" has been answered a gazillion times by myself now and always with the same content (same as in my post above), and that content won't change in the future either.

Martin

[Moon]

Originally posted by JonS:

The last patch came out nearly six months ago. Now you saying that the next patch could be another six months, and nary a word about what will be addressed in it. I'll bear that in mind next time someone reminds me about '[y]our patch and support history for CMBO and CMBB'

Sure, but don't forget also to mention the 17 patches for CMBO-CMAK that we have already made.

And believe me, if I could predict the future I would tell you today not only what the patch will address, I would even tell you what the patch for the new engine will be about! Yay!

Martin

[_Axe_]

Originally posted by Moon:

You bought a game, not a company share.

Obviously that still has to get through to some people. Some of these patch threads are worse than a cranky shareholders' meeting -- with a lot more condecension from certain know-it-all posters.

[Holman]

CM is dying anyway now. CMBB was the last real new game, CMAK just being an extension, which has a shorter life time too I would guess. Seeing how it is nothing new in the CMBB sense.

...

I am a strong supporter of BFC, but for me anyway, its soon time to put this dog to rest.

I just don't get this! CMBB/CMAK makes me happier than any other game I play. No wargame that has been released during the past few years can hold a candle to the flexibility, fidelity, and tactical possibilities of the CM engine. In wargaming, of all genres, "newer" doesn't necessarily mean "better."

Or are you pining for imagined refinements to the system? When some other game comes out with them, be sure to let us know, but I have a feeling that the next truly great wargame is going to come from BTS.

[Hortlund]

Generally though, its not good for business to tell off customers. Personally I dont know how many times I've wanted to clock one of my clients or at least tell them to sod off so I definitively understand the frustration.

But still...

[_Axe_]

Normally I would agree, but in this case we've got a handful of people doing a lot of work and still getting posts ad nauseum about the next patch. BFC's record of customer support is up there with the best I've seen.

Making backhanded snide comments about them taking on too much work at the expense of CM patches would be, I'm guessing, the last straw. It was for me reading these threads.

And I don't care what the accepted wisdom is -- the customer is not always right.

[Moon]

Yes, it's a bit frustrating to see some publishers release barely playable games, then patch the heck out of it on the back of their customers, and be called "sooo supportive" of their game, while here we are talking about actually adding stuff! Sometime minuscle refinements and suggestions (often enough controversial or even shortsighted), sometimes requests to add even more units to the already hundreds of units in the game (thousands of you combine all three titles) and so on.

While the CM series is THE WWII tactical game, I, and it seems like alot of others, are getting tired of the games.

Which is nothing to be shamed of. We're in fact proud to have made a game that people have been playing in and out for years; and still are! It's perfectly ok to burn out on CM, it's a great compliment to us in fact rather than a fault if you ask me, but it seems that some people have to learn to handle it, and they forget to actually enjoy the game for a change (or, in case of burn-out, putting it aside for a while).

Sometimes I wish that there WAS a worthy competitor for CM, you know I wouldn't be here writing this nonsense, but instead either playing it, and actually working to help make CMX2...

And lastly, there seems to be the misconception that anything that we do that is not CM-related somehow distracts from either supporting CMAK or making CMX2. This is simply not the case. We are a developer but we are also a publisher, and e.g. Hubert (Strategic Command 2) or Brian + Dan Verssen (Down in Flames) are working on their games projects independently of what we're doing. Even without those games, neither CMX2 nor a CMAK 1.02 patch would be here any sooner.

Martin

[ June 10, 2004, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: Moon ]

[Moon]

Originally posted by Leutnant Hortlund:

Generally though, its not good for business to tell off customers. Personally I dont know how many times I've wanted to clock one of my clients or at least tell them to sod off so I definitively understand the frustration.

But still...

Right, but telling the truth ("the patch will be out sometime this year") is not saying "sod off". However, if the customer puts his fingers in his ears and keeps shouting "now now now" and "more more more", there is a limit as to what we can do.

Martin

[Ant]

Originally posted by Leutnant Hortlund:

Generally though, its not good for business to tell off customers. Personally I dont know how many times I've wanted to clock one of my clients or at least tell them to sod off so I definitively understand the frustration.

But still...

LOL. You call that telling off customers. Compared to some of Madmatt's more choice comments I'd say it was being positively obsequious

[junk2drive]

moon, thank you for your comments.

if the series was dieing, there wouldnt be a new scenario depot, all the cmmos at cmmods, activity at the proving grounds, etc.

oldtimers will leave, newcomers will come, life will go on.

stopped by matrixgames forum the other day. they are still fighting over 7.1 8.0 8.1 h2h when is 8.2 going to be here.

[Vergeltungswaffe]

My .02 on the whole "CM is old, I'm tired of it", bit is that, if CMx2 (or anything else worthy for that matter) never came out, I would play this game for as long as my comp was compatible, and I'd keep an old comp that ran it until it died just for CM if it wouldn't run on new tech comps.

[Panzer76]

Originally posted by Martyr:

Or are you pining for imagined refinements to the system? When some other game comes out with them, be sure to let us know, but I have a feeling that the next truly great wargame is going to come from BTS.

I have played all 3 CM games, that means Ive been playing them, and playing them alot, both for fun and on ladders, for over 4 yrs. You reach a point you know. As Moon said, burn out, and he is right, never before has any series hold me for this long. Kudos to BFC. But for me, it still is the case of, the King is dead, long live the King, but where the heck is he?!

[Scheer]

Ummm,

I own all of the CM series ( CMBO and CMBB double ),

so, obviuosly I really like this game. CMAK plays just fine for me in its 1.01 incarnation.

Yeah, there are some small issues that need to be adressed, but those are no showstoppers ( IMHO ).

Seeing Battlefronts excellent support; I have confidence that they will deliver on the patch, when its ready.

And saying " I´m waiting for CM2 and dont play CMAK anymore, because CMAK is old technology " I dont really understand.

Since CM** I bought only three or four new games, and inspite of this newer games, 80 % of my time go into CMAK or CMBB.

Nothing compares to CM** .

Damn, I´m a fanboy

[TheCrow]

PzIV undermodeled "turret front armor" has become a major problem at CMAK, cause the AP perfomance of 37mm Antitank guns and another light one´s.

Could be the PzIV remodeled with a similar feature like Tiger "reinforced turret front"? In order to improve their historical armor.

Thanks.

[MikeyD]

I recall this topic from awhile ago. the 'undermodeled' pzIV front is due to use of front turret shell numbers, not the max gun mantlet thickness. Using the max numbers means you'll never get a clean penetration against the turret armor, using the minimum turret shell numbers means the thick mantlet won't deflect that uncoming round. You're damned whichever number you go with!

I'm not near the game, do the PzIV turret front armor stats say 'rounded'? That would mitigate the thin armor problem if it did.

[Pzman]

As a long time player myself I'd have to say that although I have play all three game I still enjoy it a lot. Sure I don't play as much as when I first got CMBO four years ago, but I still have all three games on the old hard drive.

Thanks to the boys at BTS (BFC for you new people) for all your hard work over the years to bring us such great games!

[Other Means]

so...things are being added eh?

{steeples fingers}

gooood gooood.

edit - mismatched brackets. every iota of programming in my soul shouted at me.

[Panzer76]

Originally posted by TheCrow:

PzIV undermodeled "turret front armor" has become a major problem at CMAK, cause the AP perfomance of 37mm Antitank guns and another light one´s.

Could be the PzIV remodeled with a similar feature like Tiger "reinforced turret front"? In order to improve their historical armor.

Thanks.

The problem lies also in the fact that the small turret size is not factored in. CM does not account for the size of any turrent and treat them all equal. BFC has not given any comment that would suggest that these issues will be corrected in a patch.

[Kong]

I preface my comments by stating that I own all 3 CM products. I have played CM daily since Sept 2000, except for a 5 month break before CMAK came out... I liked Ivan's stuff but I got to have my American iron.

I personally would not even respond to some of your questions/comments. Some of you obviously have nary a clue as to what it takes to write/create software, let alone run a company. Your ignorance is like a clanging bell. Your behavior is that of a spoiled 12yo boy who can't get what he wants. So he screams, yells, and throws a fit.

The 1.02 patch in the big picture is very minor. IMO CMAK needs no more patching, I feel even stronger about that knowing that any time spent on a patch for CMAK is time away from CMX2.

Speaking of CMX2, I eagerly await this product. But I also am preparing that it may be awhile before we see it, possibly even 2006. Sure I would love have it sooner, but I would rather wait for a stable, richer product than get a shoddy product earlier. Nonetheless the same people crying about the patch will next be bitching and moaning about CMX2 taking too long. Once again proving their ignorance and lack of maturity.

CMxx and BFC are treasures, something I had never found before and doubt I will ever find again. Some of you need to remember this before your fingers hit the keys on your keyboard.

[Oddball_E8]

I think people are forgetting that most other games (well damned near all of them) end up about as bug free as the retail version (1.0) of the CM series games... and that is only after all the patches are released for the games... this company actually releases a series of games that are nearly bug free and you ride their backs about not releasing patches quick enough?

[Sergei]

In this kind of game it's normally not the bugs that are why patches are needed, but to correct errors in stats and make game rules more realistic.