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Sniper ammo (why 10 shots?).


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I have just started to use snipers in combat missions but I am a little dissapointed with the ammo amount that I just found out. Why the hell would a sniper have 10 rounds in a combat situation, this is totally unrealistic or am I being stupid? Also what is the best way to use a sniper? Would you use it to take out tank commanders or platoon leaders/officers?

Bonzo UK.

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Well, first off, they're more hide-in-the-bush-better-than-average shots and have a scoped rifle marksmen type than they are true "snipers" per se.

I think its an artificial control to prevent them from being overused in a tactical sense. I.e., no creeping around killing every gun crewman and TC on the map. It also reflects that thouhg its most likely our detached rifle bearing friend does have more ammo, he's not likely to fire it all that often, and certainly not as much as players would have him.

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Originally posted by AndrewTF:

The 10 ammo count does not represent 10 individual bullets but rather 10 groups of shots, i.e. sharpshooters can cause more than one casualty per "round" expended.

And that is true of all small-arms-bearing infantry type units. Every time a squad uses an ammo point, every member of the unit is assumed to have fired several times. When an MG uses an ammo point, it has fired a burst of, say, 3-10 rounds.

Michael

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Sharpshooters very seldom manges to inflict more than one cas, if any, pr "shot". The TacAI refuses to fire on reg inf. Do a test. Set up a Sharpshooter in a heavy 2 story building, have a toon approach it from 600 m away over open terrain.

What happens? Does the Sharpshooter deftly supress and and inflict cas on the approching enemy toon? No, nothing happens, nothing at all. The enemy is allowed to walk right up to him before his starts using his pistol. *Sigh*

If you force him to pick targets, you will see that he inflicts very few cas on the approaching toon. Perhaps 2-4 cas (for a reg sharpshooter).

Sharpshooters are ok for scouting and picking off TC, perhaps supressing MGs. Pretty useless, IMO and I very seldom buy em in QBs.

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In a pbem I am now playing an enemy sniper caused a TC kill (and forced the other 2 Stug in the group to stay buttoned after that). He also suppressed several squads (vet and regular) in the proces also denying them the use of the E movement.

He caused 2 infantry casualties with one "shot" in one squad, and one casualty in an other. All in nothing dramatic, but he cost me several turns due to the slower progress the units made, and limited the spotting capability of the Stugs.

Combing the church and the graveyard where he was "sound spotted" en route (I had to pass there anyway) I could not find him. So he even got away with it.

Bertram

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originally posted by dugfromthearth:

there is a reason that armies tended to field mg's instead of snipers in large numbers.

There is a reason I tend to field mg's instead of snipers in large numbers... :D

BTW, what ranges do you usually order your sharpshooters to engage enemy targets? Should one care to attack at maximum range at all or better save ammo for closer ranges?

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I'd imagine a marksman would be very useful in surpressing anti-tank guns... except I can't recall ever seeing it happen in a game.

If our marksmen used up their ammo on ever Tom, Dick & Harry that wandered within 500m we'd be complaining bitterly about it. Maybe a little selectivity in picking targets isn't a bad thing.

I'm reminded of that line from the movie "Enemy at the Gates" (if I recall correctly) where the young hero sniper said he never shoots individual infantrymen, just the officers because infantry without someone to command it is useless. Or maybe I'm just imagining he said that.

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Originally posted by MikeyD:

I'd imagine a marksman would be very useful in surpressing anti-tank guns... except I can't recall ever seeing it happen in a game.

I have. They don't usually totally suppress it, but they force it to slow the rate of fire, and I assume that accuracy may be degraded as well.

Michael

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i find them extremely useful. MTC 100m in front your main advance with a 150m 180o covered arc allows you to resolve sound contacts a lot quicker. in any kind of cover they are very hard to spot. the trick is to avoid cover where you expect resistance.

they can also supress ATG's, which i've seen done. i generally advance 3 - 5 of them evenly spaced. that way when (ok if (ok ok big if)) my shwerpunkt gets through the MLR & i attempt to roll the line up, i can observe the re-positioning of re-enforcements & possibly interdict them. especially crew weapons.

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Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by SirReal:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by dugfromthearth:

there is a reason that armies tended to field mg's instead of snipers in large numbers.

Yes. Training an MG gunner takes six days. Training a sniper takes six months. </font>
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Well, that's why MG teams have between 2 and 6 men in the game.

Actually, movement rates for MG teams have been a topic of hot discussion since CMBO when they were unable to run. Depending on the weapon and the ammo load, MG team members are generally not carrying anymore than the average rifleman.

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When we're talking about a mg squeezing off a 3-6 round burst we've got to remember we're talking about a LOT of weapons types. The MG42 hmg and Thompson smg had murderously high rates of fire(900-1000 rpm). It'd take a very practiced hand indeed to come near to a 3 round burst. The small squad smgs ('burp' gun, 'grease' gun, Sten gun, etc.) and the low rof BAR could probable handle a 3 round burst.

The 3 round burst 'standard' is pretty much a postwar invention along with the modern assault rifle. These weapons are less accurate than the classic combat rifle and it usually taking a grouping of three rounds just to hit anything! :D;)

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Originally posted by MikeyD:

When we're talking about a mg squeezing off a 3-6 round burst we've got to remember we're talking about a LOT of weapons types. The MG42 hmg and Thompson smg had murderously high rates of fire(900-1000 rpm). It'd take a very practiced hand indeed to come near to a 3 round burst.

The MG34 had a special trigger that pivoted in the center. Squeezing on the lower half (I think it was) produced the usual continuous fire, but squeezing on the upper half did something different. I'm very sure that I have read that it produced 3 round bursts, but a quick perusal of several of my sources reveals only one reference to it and that mentions "single shot". In any event, this feature was deleted on the MG42.

Michael

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