Bogey_English Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I have just started to use snipers in combat missions but I am a little dissapointed with the ammo amount that I just found out. Why the hell would a sniper have 10 rounds in a combat situation, this is totally unrealistic or am I being stupid? Also what is the best way to use a sniper? Would you use it to take out tank commanders or platoon leaders/officers? Bonzo UK. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Well, first off, they're more hide-in-the-bush-better-than-average shots and have a scoped rifle marksmen type than they are true "snipers" per se. I think its an artificial control to prevent them from being overused in a tactical sense. I.e., no creeping around killing every gun crewman and TC on the map. It also reflects that thouhg its most likely our detached rifle bearing friend does have more ammo, he's not likely to fire it all that often, and certainly not as much as players would have him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewTF Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 You might want to try a search, as this has been discussed several times before at length. The 10 ammo count does not represent 10 individual bullets but rather 10 groups of shots, i.e. sharpshooters can cause more than one casualty per "round" expended. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Originally posted by AndrewTF: The 10 ammo count does not represent 10 individual bullets but rather 10 groups of shots, i.e. sharpshooters can cause more than one casualty per "round" expended. And that is true of all small-arms-bearing infantry type units. Every time a squad uses an ammo point, every member of the unit is assumed to have fired several times. When an MG uses an ammo point, it has fired a burst of, say, 3-10 rounds. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer76 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Sharpshooters very seldom manges to inflict more than one cas, if any, pr "shot". The TacAI refuses to fire on reg inf. Do a test. Set up a Sharpshooter in a heavy 2 story building, have a toon approach it from 600 m away over open terrain. What happens? Does the Sharpshooter deftly supress and and inflict cas on the approching enemy toon? No, nothing happens, nothing at all. The enemy is allowed to walk right up to him before his starts using his pistol. *Sigh* If you force him to pick targets, you will see that he inflicts very few cas on the approaching toon. Perhaps 2-4 cas (for a reg sharpshooter). Sharpshooters are ok for scouting and picking off TC, perhaps supressing MGs. Pretty useless, IMO and I very seldom buy em in QBs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Harmes Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I played a hotseat mission with a mate of mine recently, in which his regular German sniper managed to shoot two of my tank commanders in one turn. This is the only time I have seen a sniper do anything remotely useful. So, to my knowledge, unbuttoned vehicles are ripe targets for snipers... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 They are very valuable for picking off individual targets. They can be effective against mortar units and tank commanders, but if you want a unit to stop a platoon advancing - buy a light machine gun or HMG for the same number of points. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertram Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 In a pbem I am now playing an enemy sniper caused a TC kill (and forced the other 2 Stug in the group to stay buttoned after that). He also suppressed several squads (vet and regular) in the proces also denying them the use of the E movement. He caused 2 infantry casualties with one "shot" in one squad, and one casualty in an other. All in nothing dramatic, but he cost me several turns due to the slower progress the units made, and limited the spotting capability of the Stugs. Combing the church and the graveyard where he was "sound spotted" en route (I had to pass there anyway) I could not find him. So he even got away with it. Bertram 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugfromthearth Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 there is a reason that armies tended to field mg's instead of snipers in large numbers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdstrike Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 originally posted by dugfromthearth: there is a reason that armies tended to field mg's instead of snipers in large numbers. There is a reason I tend to field mg's instead of snipers in large numbers... BTW, what ranges do you usually order your sharpshooters to engage enemy targets? Should one care to attack at maximum range at all or better save ammo for closer ranges? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I'd imagine a marksman would be very useful in surpressing anti-tank guns... except I can't recall ever seeing it happen in a game. If our marksmen used up their ammo on ever Tom, Dick & Harry that wandered within 500m we'd be complaining bitterly about it. Maybe a little selectivity in picking targets isn't a bad thing. I'm reminded of that line from the movie "Enemy at the Gates" (if I recall correctly) where the young hero sniper said he never shoots individual infantrymen, just the officers because infantry without someone to command it is useless. Or maybe I'm just imagining he said that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omi Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I see snipers like rockets and air support, it's a gamble. Sometimes they do nothing for the entire battle, sometimes they kill tank commanders, HQs or Anti-tank teams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 They can be very effective at suppressing heavy weapons. I just took out a 75mm AT gun with one at 400m. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirReal Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Originally posted by dugfromthearth: there is a reason that armies tended to field mg's instead of snipers in large numbers. Yes. Training an MG gunner takes six days. Training a sniper takes six months. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Originally posted by birdstrike: BTW, what ranges do you usually order your sharpshooters to engage enemy targets? Should one care to attack at maximum range at all or better save ammo for closer ranges? It's usually best to let marksmen pick their own targets. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Originally posted by MikeyD: I'd imagine a marksman would be very useful in surpressing anti-tank guns... except I can't recall ever seeing it happen in a game.I have. They don't usually totally suppress it, but they force it to slow the rate of fire, and I assume that accuracy may be degraded as well. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Originally posted by SirReal: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by dugfromthearth: there is a reason that armies tended to field mg's instead of snipers in large numbers. Yes. Training an MG gunner takes six days. Training a sniper takes six months. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 i find them extremely useful. MTC 100m in front your main advance with a 150m 180o covered arc allows you to resolve sound contacts a lot quicker. in any kind of cover they are very hard to spot. the trick is to avoid cover where you expect resistance. they can also supress ATG's, which i've seen done. i generally advance 3 - 5 of them evenly spaced. that way when (ok if (ok ok big if)) my shwerpunkt gets through the MLR & i attempt to roll the line up, i can observe the re-positioning of re-enforcements & possibly interdict them. especially crew weapons. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: When an MG uses an ammo point, it has fired a burst of, say, 3-10 rounds. Michael That seems like an awfully low figure. Got a source, or is this a SWAG? Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Originally posted by MrSpkr: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Emrys: When an MG uses an ammo point, it has fired a burst of, say, 3-10 rounds. Michael That seems like an awfully low figure. Got a source, or is this a SWAG?</font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Leopard Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by SirReal: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by dugfromthearth: there is a reason that armies tended to field mg's instead of snipers in large numbers. Yes. Training an MG gunner takes six days. Training a sniper takes six months. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Well, that's why MG teams have between 2 and 6 men in the game. Actually, movement rates for MG teams have been a topic of hot discussion since CMBO when they were unable to run. Depending on the weapon and the ammo load, MG team members are generally not carrying anymore than the average rifleman. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 When we're talking about a mg squeezing off a 3-6 round burst we've got to remember we're talking about a LOT of weapons types. The MG42 hmg and Thompson smg had murderously high rates of fire(900-1000 rpm). It'd take a very practiced hand indeed to come near to a 3 round burst. The small squad smgs ('burp' gun, 'grease' gun, Sten gun, etc.) and the low rof BAR could probable handle a 3 round burst. The 3 round burst 'standard' is pretty much a postwar invention along with the modern assault rifle. These weapons are less accurate than the classic combat rifle and it usually taking a grouping of three rounds just to hit anything! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Originally posted by MikeyD: When we're talking about a mg squeezing off a 3-6 round burst we've got to remember we're talking about a LOT of weapons types. The MG42 hmg and Thompson smg had murderously high rates of fire(900-1000 rpm). It'd take a very practiced hand indeed to come near to a 3 round burst.The MG34 had a special trigger that pivoted in the center. Squeezing on the lower half (I think it was) produced the usual continuous fire, but squeezing on the upper half did something different. I'm very sure that I have read that it produced 3 round bursts, but a quick perusal of several of my sources reveals only one reference to it and that mentions "single shot". In any event, this feature was deleted on the MG42. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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