Frenchy Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 Guys - at first I thought this was a jagdpanther or but on closer exam it looks to be the remains of a towed gun, perhaps an 88. Can anyone confirm? http://www.trailblazersww2.org/images/ferberl.jpg Thanks in advance! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooz Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 My two guesses: 1) Hetzer with the 75LL gun (an ASL term). Some Hetzers with equipped with the same type of 75 mm Gun that was used in the Panther (notice that I am NOT a gun grog ). Well, at least that's what I learned from the ASL "Armoury" anyway. 2) Jagdpanther. Remember, these are guesses. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogdan Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 No, I don't think it's even a vehicle. It looks like an 88mm ATG PaK43. The gun shield is easely recognizable. By the way, the weapons doesn't look simply set up on the ground, but on a kind of platform with camoflage :confused: Edited : I've just noticed that the gun has a "chair" in front of it. This device is to be used during transport... ...strange ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaws Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 It's a Panzer IV (not a PanzerKampfWagen IV) But the barrel is a 8.8cm KwK43/L71. On the hull you can see clearly the barrel holder on the front and the track on the left. Only the Panzer IV series have the barrelholder placed like that. At the end of the war al kind of vehicles were assembled with material that was able for combat. Modifications like this one was therefore common at the end of the war. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 Originally posted by Jaws: It's a Panzer IV (not a PanzerKampfWagen IV)You mean JagdPanzer IV, perhaps? Because Panzer IV is always PzKpfw IV. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 The gun is pretty obviously an 8.8cm PaK43/3 L71. What it's mounted on though... The track looks pretty narrow for it to be a MkIV, so I'm guessing a Pz38 chassis. Since the guy standing in back looks to be wearing American kit, maybe it's even some one-off captured French AFV mutant. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 The illusory track confusingly makes it look like it's on a tank chassis, but that upright 'thing' is a wheel seen straight on. Pak 43 Anti Tank Gun [ August 05, 2004, 01:37 AM: Message edited by: Wicky ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 What tracks? I only see a wheel. Looks like a towed 88mm PaK on its carriage to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogdan Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 A Waffenträger, maybe ? Picture. But is that vehicle saw effective engagement, or was it only a prototype ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 Now I'm really confused. Wicky's pic does look familiar. But what's that on the left: Look's like two plates from a side skirt? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogdan Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 ...or a piece of wood dug in in the ground ? Edited : NO ! It's a wheel ! This is a PaK 43 on wheels. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 My guess is a Pak 43 on a 4 wheel carriage, with the photo taken directly from the front. Here's one example. Mace 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaws Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 Originally posted by Sergei: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jaws: It's a Panzer IV (not a PanzerKampfWagen IV)You mean JagdPanzer IV, perhaps? Because Panzer IV is always PzKpfw IV. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 In the game the Jagdpanzer IV with the L/70 gun is called "Panzer IV/70". This may be handy because the only actual Panzer that used the 75/L70 was Panther, so there's no danger of mixup even if you drop the 'Jagd' bit from the front of Jagdpanzer IV/70. I would still suspect that Germans called it as Jagdpanzer, because that includes the important bit saying that it's a "hunting" tank, a tank destroyer. But flatly calling Jagdpanzer IV as 'Panzer IV' (both the L/48 and L/70 variants) is deceptive and should be avoided. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaws Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 Originally posted by Sergei: In the game the Jagdpanzer IV with the L/70 gun is called "Panzer IV/70". This may be handy because the only actual Panzer that used the 75/L70 was Panther, so there's no danger of mixup even if you drop the 'Jagd' bit from the front of Jagdpanzer IV/70. I would still suspect that Germans called it as Jagdpanzer, because that includes the important bit saying that it's a "hunting" tank, a tank destroyer. But flatly calling Jagdpanzer IV as 'Panzer IV' (both the L/48 and L/70 variants) is deceptive and should be avoided. Funny , I always use to say Jagdpanzer IV.. but since I've that book I use Panzer IV I will call it a Jagdpanzer IV from now on 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 I seriously don't think it's a tank at all. The 'wheel' on the left side is load bearing, and is not the correct size nor shape for the drive or rear return bogie of a PzKpfw IV. It is more typical of the late war wheel used on German AT and artillery pieces (as shown in the photo posted by Wicky above). And what looks like track on first glance (to the immediate right of the wheel) appears to be a mechanism of the wheel axle, or could be part of a frame to hold armored plate used to protect the axle from damage. Mace 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchy Posted August 5, 2004 Author Share Posted August 5, 2004 Guys - thanks for your efforts - sorry for the quality of the picture. It was sent to me that way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 Bogdan, von Lucke, Wicky, Flamingknives, and Mace are all correct. I don't know why everyone else is so confused. It looks just like the gun in the game! ...with the exception of it still being on its travelling wheels. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinty Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 A little late answering here, but the Pak 43 crowd had it right. At least that's the first thing I guessed when I looked at it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaws Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 Yes I agree, it is a PAK 43 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 By the way, the guy standing on the gun is Matt Anzelc mystery craft and what is this aircraft and what does it have in common with Frenchy's original linked '88' photo? [ August 05, 2004, 07:50 AM: Message edited by: Wicky ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirocco Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 That's a curious picture. I would speculate that it is indeed a PaK 43, possibly towed by a halftrack, in which the individual is standing. Having said that, the travel lock isn't in use, which might mean the crew didn't fit it, or they were in the process of limbering, or unlimbering it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogdan Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 Originally posted by Wicky: ...what is this aircraft and what does it have in common with Frenchy's original linked '88' photo? Well, the craft is one of the Ferdinand Ferber's flying prototype, elaborated in early 20th century. Here is a small biography. No glory for me : the answer was in your link... However, I really don't know what's the link between this flying dinosaur and a WW2 german anti-tank gun ! :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 The pic is named as "ferberl.jpg". Maybe it was taken by a relative. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogdan Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 Ok, just for playing : what's that thing ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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