Chad Harrison Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 The funny thing about the war and CMBB was there were periods where either side had a distinct armor advantage. I just got my but handed to me in a PBEM that was March 1942 with standard rarity. Why? My armor was utterly shut down by my opponent. I had a 4 tank platoon of Mark III's with L/60 50mm guns and two Mark IV's with L/24 75mm gun. When purchasing my troops I knew I was in for trouble and so I tried to get some decent AT guns to help out. A PaK 40 was 160 points and a 88 was about the same. I then got really desperate and I was even going to get the lesser StuG IIIF with the weak armor but it was also 160 points! So I went with some INF guns and a 50mm gun. It was a bad sight for the germans that day. My infantry did very well and was holding the line {it was a ME}. But then I tried to duel his armor that was bombarding my infantry. I brought each of my tanks up from hull down positions and got off a few shots before he could return fire. Each time he destroyed my tanks after multiple shots bounced off his tanks {T34's and KV's}. Thats life and I am not complaining. But what are your strategies for early war with the Germans {pre StuG L/43 or L/48}? The L/60 50mm is great and all under 300m but past that it looses its touch. Thanks in advance Chad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walpurgis nacht Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Chad, it's all about the captured 76 AT gun. This gun is all around better than a pak40, the only disadvantage is it turns/moves a little more slowly than pak40. It's only 91 points standard rarity, march '42, and it makes short work of KVs at 600 meters+. other people may have other ways, but I avoid the pzIII series like the plague. The HE blast value just isn't enough "boom boom" for me. The early PzIV series is the way to go. The 75mmL24 doesn't have boat loads of velocity, but the great german optics make up for it. AND, if you're lucky, the HC with 82 penetrating value "can" take a KV from the flank at 100 meters. Other way to deal specifically with KV in early war. 20mm flak guns. keep them back and in cover and fire away. 2-20mm flak guns per KV, and you WILL get a track or gun hit . . .for sure before they spend all their ammo. Plus, these guys are small so you only get sound contacts if they're back far enough. Hope this helps. [ June 11, 2003, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: Walpurgis Night ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 It's a tough situation to be in - glad I wasn't really there! I guess you have to try and make the most of your command advantages - You've got morale and speed on your side. I'd keep my units hidden for as long as possible and try ambush tactics in your case. You're never gonna win against KV's - not with 50mm guns. I like to engulf their tanks with men - basically I 'volunteer' a platoon to ambush a tank - I split them at the last minute and *sometimes* whilst one group of men is getting it thick and fast, the other group can run up behind and hit a weak spot. More often that not, their crew panics before I actually damage the tank, and they'll bail out, but it works for me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaylord Focker Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Try a Stuka. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Yeh, by coincidence I just finished a March 1942 game, myself. I let the AI pick my units, got a LOT of late model Pz38(T)s, not nearly enough infantry, and found myself facing four KVs in a village. Oh yeh, and it was overcast, so no air support. Ouch. The only way I could've got the KVs was to infiltrate my infantry, but four KVs protecting each-other's back was too much for me. It was a total defeat, but it was fun trying. [ June 11, 2003, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demoss Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 I've been getting hammered by III J (late) models lately (and had good luck with them myself in the past). The front armor is almost proof against 76 mm fire, and with a tungsten round it can take out a KV. Make sure you have quality crews so they don't miss with their tungsten rounds. I'm not sure if they're available in March '42, but they sure are in May. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schoerner Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 A very difficult situation. When purchasing units, i always take at least one with a decent gun (mostly PAK43 or 88; they are the life-savers). I usually i keep it hidden as long as possible and it comes into play, if usual tank tactics are without success: at this point, usually the enemy keeps his tanks visible, or i know at least where they are. Timing is very critical for the following, not new tactics, but usually it works: then i call in smoke from the mortars or PzIV, blocking LOS from PAK to his tanks, except the most ugly. The smoke should be placed in that way, that the enemy believes an infantry or tank attack from the wrong direction is possible and he also should be in the misbeliev, that his tanks have LOS to that estimated direction (but in the meanwhile, they are already blind ). The nest part is as usual: Shoot&Scoot with own tanks at the end of the minute to attract fire or keep the turrets rotating away from the PAK and the beast is gone... If the further use of the PAK is critical, then simultaneously dropped smoke in front of the gun usually helps to keep it alive for another tank. [ June 11, 2003, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: Schoerner ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 I think what we really need is variable rarity and a Fionn-like ruleset. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Harrison Posted June 11, 2003 Author Share Posted June 11, 2003 Originally posted by redwolf: I think what we really need is variable rarity and a Fionn-like ruleset. Here here. I miss the good old short75 and Panther76 rules. Has anyone developed a good set of similar rules for CMBB? If not, I am sure we could all put somefink together not too difficult. I just surrendered the game after loosing my last tank. The game was almost over anyway and his KV2 was just destroying everything I had {I wont name names though}. Interestingly enough my infantry did quite well. He had more casulties on his troops {by 37 on a 3000 point game}. I wanted to know how devasting his armor really was so I counted up all the casulties that his armor and AT guns {two 85mm AA's that pounded me good} had and it was 67% of total casulties inflicted on my men. All 6 of my tanks managed to take out 1 of his men {MEN not tank} and otherwise all the rest were from my troops, INF guns, and mortars. Just a note for some of you. This is before that extra turret armor was added to the Mark III's. Once you get that extra 20mm on the turret you can easily go toe to toe with T34's at under 500m's when you are hull down. And I did have air support but they were the non bomb type. They did a good job with all his AC's though But hey, you win some and you loose some and somewhere inbetween you learn a thing or two from a good but kicking {I leave that up to you Walpurgis:)} Chad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Originally posted by Chad Harrison: But what are your strategies for early war with the Germans...Sue for peace while you can still get good terms. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 Bribe the Uber Finns into taking over the world for you, then bribe the Swiss into closing their Finnish accounts. [ June 11, 2003, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: Bruno Weiss ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 Originally posted by Chad Harrison: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by redwolf: I think what we really need is variable rarity and a Fionn-like ruleset. Here here. I miss the good old short75 and Panther76 rules. Has anyone developed a good set of similar rules for CMBB? If not, I am sure we could all put somefink together not too difficult. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbertles Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 If you are using MkIIIs with 50mm L/60s, manuever for long distance side shots on T34s (if your map allows). Long range front just bounces. But side shots can open them up. Won't work for KVs though. Scream and Leap? a quick haiku: Mark three fifties rage On KV's immortal sides Petals on March snow? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walpurgis nacht Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 I noticed in a pure armor battle tonight, that tungsten bearing pzIII series fires it now well past 500 meters due to version 1.03. It took out a KV of mine at 552 meters. This is a helpful improvement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Pusher Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 I recently found myself in a similarly dire situation. In desperation I targeted a small group of T34's with an 80mm FO and after two rounds got a top penetration and knocked out one of them. Didnt stop the other two from tearing up my infantry though... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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