The 150mm Infantry gun - fighting the beast

[securityguard]

Any CM veteren knows the 150mm INF gun inside out. In a QB it either means you win, or lose, depending on wether you're the recieving or giving end. I've always thought that the 150mm is far too cheap for its power, since the days of CMBO to the days of CMAK. It can level buildings in three hits and destroy platoons in seconds with deadly accuracy at distance. It's without a doubt my most favorite and hated unit in the game.

Basic AT gun strategies versus the gun can apply, except that when it fires first, you'll lose. You have to be incredibly careful not to lump up infantry, or put infantry in danger of it in some way. Sometimes, in a QB, that simply isn't possible.

I haven't played CMBO in years, but I do know some nusainces with CMBB and CMAK. In CMAK, the 150mm - or AT guns in general - are far more fragile. I ran some tests and one 50mm mortar was capable of KO'ing it 60% of the time. In CMBB it had a little trouble, but similar results. 82mm could knock it out with ease in both games. If you take an onboard mortar, it's preferable to get 82mm or above. The point difference isn't much.

Obviously the 150mm won't be used against your armor, so this is another advantage you have. Typically one 150mm has two or three HC shells - devastating if they hit, but usually the 150mm is innaccurate over 600m or so. The reload times for the 150mm are incredible unless they have an 'Crack' or above crew, so the first shot is always the worst when it comes to fighting it with armor.

Examine the terrain obsessively. Figure out spots where the other player would put his 150mm, then make sure you have the ability to harm it once it fires. Obviously you cannot hit something you cannot see, which is the biggest advantage the 150mm has. All it needs to do is shoot for one turn and it can completely slaughter you. I usually have mortars (with HQ spotters) or armor on these hot zones, so they can retaliate hopefully the next turn or the turn it fires.

These are just really basic strategies, has anyone come up with better ways to prevent these things from cleaning you out?

[Redwolf]

Smoke, HMG supression, mortar kill.

In the hand of experienced players the lighter guns are actually more dangerous because they remove them after opening fire and might be thankful for your smoke.

The 150mm doesn't go anywhere in the time the smoke lasts while you set up MGs and mortars.

Another trick is tank fire from a little out of LOS, although in the case of the 150mm it works both ways if your tank is too thin :eek:

[Falcon988]

I was attacking through the desert with Australians once, against some hill the Germans had fortified. Things went quite well until we were blown to pieces by two 150mm INF guns. Extremely high casualties. Company CO was the first one killed. Very messy. Had to withdraw.

Hate 150mm guns like the plague.

[Europa]

On a side note: What about the Brummbär. It fields the 150 mm gun in a well armoured package. Is it worth the points? Since it's mobile as well it is easy to move around and wreck havoc with. Would you be going for a bunch of 150 infg or 1 brummbär?

[securityguard]

Originally posted by Europa:

On a side note: What about the Brummbär. It fields the 150 mm gun in a well armoured package. Is it worth the points? Since it's mobile as well it is easy to move around and wreck havoc with. Would you be going for a bunch of 150 infg or 1 brummbär?

I've had limited experience with the Brummbar, only purchased it once. From what I saw it's definitely a higher priority, the armor is quite thick on it. My opponent CTRL+U'ed and said he couldn't even take it out properly with what he had.

You basicly sacrifice stealth for 100mm worth of armor. 150mmIG is 53 points, Brumm is 153. They both have same loadout. You could buy three 150mmIG's for one Brumm. But the Brumm has a higher chance of success, depending on the situation.

Three 150mmIG's... ouch. I think the most i've ever bought was two crack 150mmIG's. I completely destroyed my opponent. That was in CMBB, however. I bought a crack 150mmIG in CMAK, came out elite. During setup phase it was spotted and four mortar rounds broke it apart. They were in fairly good terrain too (large rocks).

[Europa]

So... On the offencive the Brummbär is the choice?

[Macphail]

i imagine the brummbar is pretty short on ammo, compared to the gun. i always try to buy one of the guns, just for the sheer havoc it creates. sometimes it gets alot of kills, other times maybe not. i recall once i had a 150mm gun that killed almost 200 enemy infantry. if i buy a mobile one, it would likely be an open top one, because it wont come out until i have the situation in hand, and it will just sit on a hill top and pelt HE at the fleeing british...uh, enemy.

[Europa]

I like the idea of the brummbar. A heavely armoured bar for use at the front during extremly intence combat. Should be a real boost on morale!

(Sorry about that, just had to mention it)

[Zarquon]

A Brumm has no turret and it cannot cover as much ground as three IGs, not even in wide open terrain. It is a very useful tool for attacking, taking out trenches and buildings, but IMO not for defending.

[Mr. Tittles]

This gun was deadly. Using charge I (6 oz propellent) it had a MV of 410 FPS. This gave a max range of 1613 yds. The 50% zone is 21 yds in length and 3.5 yards in width.

Troops in the open could be devastated. The fuze could be set for delay and the huge shell (16+ pounds of explosive) could use ricochet fire.

[Redwolf]

Whether the Brummbaer is worth it, the Brummbaer is still a vehicle and hence much better to get ahold of if you have a strong shooter. The infantry gun is guaranteed to get a few shots off before it dies, the Brummbaer is not.

Overall I think the direct fire HE guns are more important in CM than in real life because of the lousy indirect fire artillery model.

You wouldn't bother often to expose a 150mm infantry gun if you had 150mm artillery further back with enough pre-registered targets on the defense or a realistic walking barrage model and other attack-oriented fire patterns.

This is particulary true for the Soviets who pretty much found ground units and fire support to be interchangable, but there's not much left of that in CM.

[flamingknives]

Brummbars carry a comparable ammo load to the infantry guns, it's the SP arty that is short.

[Mr. Tittles]

The Hetzer was used as a chassis for this gun also I believe. This was for the panzergrenadier regts?

[securityguard]

Originally posted by flamingknives:

Brummbars carry a comparable ammo load to the infantry guns, it's the SP arty that is short.

This is true. The SP version is neat, but if you're really going on the attack Brummbar is the way to go.

I also agree with the "Buying three IG's can cover just as much ground as a Brummbar". However, by buying a Brummbar you deplete points from your Armored section instead of your Support section. But really, it's a toss up, since you can buy AT guns / mg's and brumm, or IG's and a tank with MG's / AT capability. Totally depends on terrain, weather, whatever. It's just losing the little things that hurts (onboard mortars, tank hunter teams, AA guns, whatever).

[Europa]

Reporting back from a just finished QB I can add that the brumm rox. Emptied it on the enemy and 6 pounders cant hurt it frontally from 100 meters.

[throwdjohn]

Methinkgs I'll have to make a lil Brummbar-Crack soviet infanrty in houses fight...purely for the enjoyment of killing russkis of course.

[Major Rags]

If you really want to kill Russkies buy a Strumtiger w/300mm naval gun. It has 13 rounds (for 1100 pts w/rarity) and takes 3 minutes to load. But it makes a BIG bang.

[Macphail]

ill stick with the 150mm gun with 40 odd rounds. in fact, ill take two please mr. arms dealer. good work europa, i might have to check that one out. once in a while i like to play a QB and let the puter pick my stuff so i get to try units i would not ordinarily buy.

[Guest Mike]

Playign in a CMAK "Infantry" tournament - my opponent has 4 x 150's - so far 1 is dead from a 25pdr shot (on-table gun), 1 is dead from 50mm mortar HE, and the other 2 are bing stonked by 3" mortars.

I bought 2 x 25 pders as my heavey on-table arty, and I thought that might be a bit gamey!! lol 1 got KO'ed by bucketloads of small arms - the other has run out of HE!!

[throwdjohn]

wow....300mm.....I'm drooling. I'm not worried about winning, I just create lil scenarios to see fun stuff. I have one that is just a Allied convoy going towards an exit zone. I have a platoon blocking the only exit just in case, but I set the scenario up in order to see what a few stukas can do to a convoy.

[FM Paul Heinrik]

Originally posted by Major Rags:

If you really want to kill Russkies buy a Strumtiger w/300mm naval gun. It has 13 rounds (for 1100 pts w/rarity) and takes 3 minutes to load. But it makes a BIG bang.

3 mins.? Is that right? I could have sworn the rare times I've used it, the sturmtiger didn't take that long to reload. I thought it was close to 1 shot per turn, making it ultimate mall parking lot creator.

[securityguard]

Originally posted by FM Paul Heinrik:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Major Rags:

If you really want to kill Russkies buy a Strumtiger w/300mm naval gun. It has 13 rounds (for 1100 pts w/rarity) and takes 3 minutes to load. But it makes a BIG bang.

3 mins.? Is that right? I could have sworn the rare times I've used it, the sturmtiger didn't take that long to reload. I thought it was close to 1 shot per turn, making it ultimate mall parking lot creator. </font>

[Pzman]

Originally posted by securityguard:

Obviously the 150mm won't be used against your armor, so this is another advantage you have. Typically one 150mm has two or three HC shells - devastating if they hit, but usually the 150mm is innaccurate over 600m or so. The reload times for the 150mm are incredible unless they have an 'Crack' or above crew, so the first shot is always the worst when it comes to fighting it with armor.

Hmm well I have taken out AFVs with the 150 even with HE. In Valley of trouble I ko'd at least four Shermans with the 150mm.

[edgars]

I have a Brummbar in one current PBEM.

It just sent two little surprises to the infantry which had just occupied a large rubble tile trying to infiltrate my lines.

The effect is stunning, squads running back over open ground chased by MG42 fire.

Now the problem is deciding when to head for cover. Since it's very close range and enemy tanks have 85mm guns.

[Soddball]

Facing off against heavily armoured kit like the Brummbar, you can really annoy your opponent by hosing it with multiple AT rifle rounds or, if you have heavy HE (such as 25pdr or 105mm), hitting the front. Both will get a modest frequency of gun damage and can be screamingly frustrating for your opponent.