Sad scene at Aberdeen

[Matrosov]

Visited the Aberdeen Proving Grounds this weekend and I was a bit shocked. The armor collection is in VERY sad shape. Some of the smaller items on the vehicles are literally rusting into small piles of dust, parts missing, signs are faded or destroyed...a pretty sad site.

I'd visited Kubinka (Russia's Aberdeen) north of Moscow about three years ago and the collection there was fantastic. Most of the vehicles are stored inside and my guide indicated that much of the German collection (which included a complete collection of the more common armor types plus a an actual Maus and a Karl mortar)was still in running condition. Can't say that I saw anything "running" but the exteriors were in excellent condition - impressive.

Considering the relative state of the current US and Russian militaries, this is a bit unexpected. What gives? Does anyone have any info about the financial situation at Aberdeen? Are there any efforts to raise money (aside from the donation box at the museum)? This is really sad to see all of this wasting away.

[wadepm]

Go to Fort Knox, KY. They have a good collection, much of it indoors. I think Maddmatt and a few other CM stalwarts made a trip down there last fall? What was the state of that collection guys?

[grinnelljd]

It truly is sad to hear that the armor collection there is going to pieces...literally. I worked at Edgewood Arsenal a number of years ago and actually lived in Aberdeen. I frequented the museum often. I even attended a weekly wargaming gathering which took place each Sunday at the Aberdeen Officers Club. Hmmm...I wonder if any of the guys I gamed with back then frequent this board at all.

Somewhere in one of my two large totes full of photos are pictures I took of some of the vehicles and guns at the Aberdeen museum. I should spend some time locating them someday soon.

Jeff

[Spanish Bombs]

The state of the Aberdeen collection is not a new concern, unfortunately. I think I have an old Squadron/Signal publication bemoaning the rusting away of the Brumbarr, and the pamphlet is dated late '60s, early '70s.

BTW, you can make a donation to the museum, or the ordnance foundation such as it is, easy enough to find by doing a google search. Your yearly membership includes a subscription to Military Vehicle magazine, a great asset in case you need a new piston ring for your jeep or a new crank case for your halftrack. More importantly, however, the last issue said something about the museum changing plans from putting up an elaborate warehouse facility that would have cost millions (not really a spending priority in DC these days, I gather), to the plan to build a sturdy and utilitarian structure. I think the new design is the same as the type of building used to quickly put together airport hangers and the like. Anything to improve the situation is fine by me.

[Matrosov]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I took a number of pictures during the trip and will try to post some of them as soon as they're developed. Sorry to say, but the Brummbar doesn't even stand out in my mind as the worst in the bunch. Hope that new structure goes up sometime soon.

Fort Knox sounds good, and I hope I'll have some time to visit. Actually, I'm moving to Texas in a few months. Any suggestions?

[CombinedArms]

SB clued me in to an Aberdeen website (can't remember the URL just now) that has plenty of good pictures. What they show, unfortunately, is lots of nifty tanks covered in thick coats of ugly paint as protection agains the elements. Some kind of indoor facility for metal vehicles often more than 60 years old would seem essential.

I haven't been to Ft. Knox, but the British tank museum at Bovington, which is in a utilitarian building along the lines of an immense quonset hut, has a great collection of tanks in superb condition, and they actually do run some of them in demonstrations for the museum goers. Very cool....wish the US could do as well by its own historical collection.

[gunnergoz]

What's really sad is that a great part of the APG collection USED to be stored in a large hangar and was in relatively good shape. During the 60's and 70's Vietnam years, the money dried up and the collection was moved outdoors and parts of it were even scrapped. I was there about 20 years ago, and the outdoor items were in pretty pathetic shape over all.

The Army's handling of this collection is a travesty, nothing less.

Bovington, in England, is paradise for armor buffs. I'm embarrassed about the comparison, actually.

This subject really gets my blood boiling... :mad:

[Michael Dorosh]

There is a similar collection at Canadian Forces Base Borden rusting away, though there are some hangars that some of the armour has been moved into, and things are looking up there. They had an M24 Chaffee, a Valentine, a few Shermans, all under a solid roof; outside was a Panther, a Moebelwagen (PzKpfw IV chassis with quad flak gun), some 5 cm and 7.5 cm AT guns, along with Rams, Stuarts, a Churchill and other allied armour. Some have been recently repainted. If anyone is in the Toronto area (post SARS?) it is one hour north of the big city and open to the public - or at least the park is. The hangars I had a private tour of but that might be able to be arranged through the museum there if one asked.

[SgtMuhammed]

This is a general symptom of a lack of history, not just in the U.S. military but in the society as a whole. Preserving our past takes a distant back seat to most other concerns. I wish the Smithsonian would make a ground version of the Air and Space Museum.

[MikeyD]

Trouble with Aberdeen is it's the red-headed stepchild of historical collections. Government disowned it, the museum has to raise funds on its own. Then the place was in lock-down for a year and a half. I cannot imagine what the museum director went through in that time. If it was a collection of airplanes... or pretty well anything else but tanks the museum would've got the proper support.

[jwxspoon]

A group of CM folk and I will be heading to the Aberdeen museum the second week in July. We intend to take lots of digital photos and digital video, which we will make available.

jw

[davedial]

Originally posted by wadepm:

Go to Fort Knox, KY. They have a good collection, much of it indoors. I think Maddmatt and a few other CM stalwarts made a trip down there last fall? What was the state of that collection guys?

Wade ..

Been there three times in the last two years. (Was astonished to find 1977 Versions of AH's Squad Leader and Third Reich boardgames in the gift shop .. shrink wrapped .. like I walked in to a time machine. Ahhh .. the smell ... that cardboard smell when you open a new war game ... smells like ...

Victory

Anyways, I found the museum to be very well kept and the machines in excellent condition. They had a KING TIGER inside, which absolutely blew me away. They have a catwalk set up there and you can look down in to the tank (they have it disassembled slightly so you can see down in it). If I recall, I believe they have a StugIII there too that some farmer RECENTLY found submerged in his swamp. It was actually in pretty good condition too.

Outside, it's all US Military Hardware including a helicopter.

It's just an outstanding place to visit that is pretty well kept but you can definitely tell that is certainly not overfunded.

DD

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