Combat Mission House Rules

[JoMac]

Here are some House Rules that im playtesting with other players to make CMBO, CMBB, CMAK games a little more interesting in my opinion. If you have any questions, suggestions, comments, please post reply below or email me at irishwop67@aol.com

There will be more additions, addenda, and deleting, depending on your responses as these rules are only partially completed. The intention is to play Company to Battalion size games with some support, anything bigger and i feel the rules might get to cumbersome, tell me what you all think.

- We will choose targets for the HQ and Support units ( All HQ, MG, Mortar, Sniper, Tank Hunter, Flame, Tanks, AT guns, etc. ) but will let the computer direct fire for all other Infantry. That means your Infantry Squads cannot select Target, Next Target, but you can still use the Cancel Target order.

- All units will have mandatory fire arcs every turn out to 180 degree to the max range listed below. That means you can set your fire arc anywhere from 1 degree out to 180 degrees. Also all units will have a minimum range set at 20 meters for their fire arcs.

Infantry and LMG will have a 180 degree out to 250 max.

ALL Infantry HQ will have a 180 degree out to 100 max.

HMG will have a 180 degree out to 500 max.

Mortars will have 180 degree out to its max.

Snipers will have a 180 degree out to 500 max.

Tank Hunter will have small arms of 180 degree out to 100 max.

Armor arc out to 40 max

Flamthrower units will have a 180 degree out to max range.

AT rifle will have a 180 degree out to 500.

Bazookas, Panzerschreks, Piats, have a 180 degree out to max range.

Armour, Field Guns, have a 180 degree out to max range.

- There will be no area fire by any units except units with HE or Flame capability.

- Do not double click on enemy to see what additional info he has such as what the Infantry might have for small arms or how much armor or penetration a vehicle has.

- Remember Vehicles and AT guns have same restrictions as Infantry and other Support units ( You must have minimum 20 meter fire arc up to 180 degree every turn ).

- A vehicle that is buttoned will have his MG fire arc range no more then 250 meters. If not buttoned 500 meters. - If your buttoned and target an infantry unit 500 meters away you can only use your main gun, the computer might go ahead and shot the MG as well but nothing we can do about that.

- Do not target a unit or area unless you have a green line of sight.

Exception: Artillery FO may map fire anywhere on the map in preparation of an attack.

[ May 18, 2006, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: JoMc67 ]

[Aco4bn187inf]

I would like to know the reasoning behind each of these rules. Is it meant to be somehow more realistic or what? Not looking at enemy unit's stats seems a reasonable enough rule, but most of them, if you'll pardon my saying so, seem to be just time-consuming and unnecessary. I can think of many reasons not to use them, based on playability and realism both.

For example, why should a commander have less control of a squad then he does of a sharpshooter? Why should a tank be prohibited from engaging an enemy unit that suddenly appears behind it? Why on earth should a squad be forbidden to put suppressive fire on a house where enemy had been spotted? Etc, etc, etc...

[David I]

:confused:

DavidI

"...I hear the voices. I am the Decider." GWB

[Joachim]

Borg spotting is the biggest problem. There is no borg spotting during a turn. So micromanaging firing orders through covered arcs does not help against this.

Your rules usually improve performance of the TacAI and a good player will use many of them. So many aren't restrictions.

TacAI usually picks the best targets for inf anyway.

Many other rules IMHO have no significant effect

What I don't like:

- Area fire by MGs is a standard procedure for me. I see no "reality" problem with this. Either by Inf MG or vehicle MGs. Sometimes "recce by fire", sometimes just suppression on suspicious areas or vanished icons.

- Double clicking on units saves remembering all those specs - or just have it printed out on your desk.

Gruß

Joachim

[Ellros]

What wrong with using Franko's Ironman rules instead? I'm sure someone has those available somewhere. Those make for an interesting challenge.

[bitchen frizzy]

I'd need a lot more explanation for the micromanaged fire arcs before I'd buy it. Why 180 degrees? What really perplexes me is, why 20m minimums?

I don't see any reason why MG's shouldn't be allowed to area fire. Also, it may not be good tactics for squads to area fire, but I don't see why it should be prohibited.

The last rule - not allowing targeting of out-of-LOS units - prevents the in-game equivalent of "As soon as those bastards show themselves, nail them!"

[ May 19, 2006, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: bitchen frizzy ]

[MikeyD]

After years of playing, I'm not entirely sure the human player's AI targets in the same manner as the AI opponent. It sometimes feels as though the human-played side is content to sit and wait for fire orders in circumstances that the AI opponent would quickly take advantage of. Perhaps I'm wrong about this, my own micro-managing of fire tends to run me out of ammo exponentially quicker than the AI, to my detriment. Maybe refusing to do my infantry's targetting would help keep my ammo stocks up... if they survive!

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Originally posted by Ellros:

What wrong with using Franko's Ironman rules instead? I'm sure someone has those available somewhere. Those make for an interesting challenge.

Absolutely. You can find a good synopsis of them here.

They work just fine for considerably more than 700 points by the way, it just takes longer.

[Corvidae]

?? Thats a lot of rules,

Do not double click on enemy to see what additional info he has such as what the Infantry might have for small arms or how much armor or penetration a vehicle has.

Since I play with FULL fog of war, it doesnt matter,

SIMPLIFY, SIMPLIFY, SIMPLIFY,

rules;

1) FOW at full,

2) NO UBER TANKS

3) standard rarity

4) KEEP IT SIMPLE,

[ May 19, 2006, 07:58 PM: Message edited by: Corvidae ]

[z-warfare]

Amen. K.I.S.S.

[z-warfare]

And TacAI never cheats.

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by Corvidae:

[snips] Since I play with FULL fog of war, it doesnt matter,

SIMPLIFY, SIMPLIFY, SIMPLIFY,

rules;

1) FOW at full,

2) NO UBER TANKS

3) standard rarity

4) KEEP IT SIMPLE,

Please provide a complete list of ubertanks.

All the best,

John,

[JasonC]

Rarity *off*, not standard. Standard favors the Germans, because it leaves their thickest armor readily affordable while making Russian counters too expensive. Similarly, it gives the Germans full access to quality arty while restricting the Russians to pop guns and a single medium type, the 120mm line FO.

Ubertanks that should not be taken unless there is prior agreement to play "no holds barred", in which case rariety must be off.

1941 - all KV models

1942-43 - Tiger I

1944-45 - King Tiger, JagdTiger, IS-2 1944 model, SU-100

You can also have a prior agreement for "vanilla strength armor", which in addition to the previous bans -

1941 - all T-34s

1942 - KVs, 80mm front StuGs

1943 - 80mm StuGs, Panthers, SU-152

1944-5 - ISUs, IS, Tiger I, Jagdpanther

All captured tanks, all periods

The basic intention of the default "no ubertanks" level is to remove items that cannot be effectively dealt with by common AT weapons of the era on the other side, even with coordinated tactics.

The basic intention of the second, "vanilla quality" level is to remove types that standard AT weapons of the era can't knock out from front aspect, regardless of range. It is meant to ensure a player that taking standard types for the era will give him effective weapons, not something readily "trumped".

The intention of "no holds barred" is to allow uberarmor but also all of its counters, thus to allow "trumps" but in all "suits", armor air arty all of it.

The reason to separate them is to avoid endless repeats of 1943 fights always being decided by Tigers or the StuG flanking nonsense we all got tired of a year and a half ago, and to avoid the gamey unhistorical force selection process that winds up with SU-152s and 57mm ATGs and Valentine IXs everywhere, with not a T-34 to be seen.

[JasonC]

As for the original proposal, I consider it silly. It takes the fire discipline issue out of the hands of players, and makes it impossible to control ammo consumption except by physically breaking LOS. It thus encourages "slow play" tactics that plop infantry in front of an enemy in cover, wait out his ammo firing into said cover, and then attack.

Removing controls over rate of fire cannot increase realism when typical units have only 5-10 minutes of the relevant types of ammo (tank and mortar HE, squad infantry ammo e.g.), and battles themselves last 3-6 times as long. It is far too easy to arrange conditions in which the fire becomes mandatory on these "house rules", but cannot destroy the men fired at.

[Corvidae]

ACCEPTABLE for 41

German tanks are , hotchkiss, sommua, renault, 35T, 38T, Pz-I, Pz-II, Pz-III with 37mm gun,

Soviet tanks are, BT2 through 7, T26, all tankets,

AT guns are 37mm and smaller, plus AT rifles,

Does this sound reasonable ?

JasonC, rarity off??? ok

John D Salt, may you choke on a bug in your salad,

A small but hairy bug, with funny parts

[ May 20, 2006, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Corvidae ]

[dieseltaylor]

The reason to separate them is to avoid endless repeats of 1943 fights always being decided by Tigers or the StuG flanking nonsense we all got tired of a year and a half ago, and to avoid the gamey unhistorical force selection process that winds up with SU-152s and 57mm ATGs and Valentine IXs everywhere, with not a T-34 to be seen.

For those less weary of the world the answer is to play on huge maps with random weather. The weather may be good or bad but it does stop players optimising their force for the weather. Huge maps mean that fast units like T34's actually have the space to use their best attribute.

So who needs to make special provisions when the parameters are there to help equalise. If you are daring play that each player chooses alternately on the weather/ terrain items etc. Big hills in fog and rain ..... just ther place for Tigers : )

[DTrill]

Have 2 games on the go where we are only directing fire for units in command of an HQ, if not in command then the unit's fire is controlled by the AI, FO's are the exception. As well, there is no selecting the the other guys units. I don't think it helps with any game issues but it does force you to move and position with alot more care. It also seems to have cut down on the speedy co-ordinated and concentrated fire from support weapons. Even with armor you either spend more in a QB to get an independant unit that you have full fire control over or get a platoon at reduced cost but have to keep in command to control fire. The jury is still out but so far no issues with it from either side.

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by Corvidae:

[snips]

John D Salt, may you choke on a bug in your salad,

A small but hairy bug, with funny parts

Another good reason for never touching salad.

As Tom Mouat says, why would anyone want to eat camouflage?

Salad -- it's what food eats.

All the best,

John.