FredKors Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Steps to reproduce the problem: 1- Play this scenario as Russian Test Scenario Russian: 1 plt infantry German: 1 plt infantry 1 Messerschmitt 2- Go! go! go! without give orders until the plane bombs 3- In the subsequent turns the plane strafes with cannons. All right! This is the correct behavior (IMHO). But: 1- Play the scenario as Russian 2- Go! go! go! without give orders until the plane bombs 3- SAVE the game 4- EXIT the scenario 5- RELOAD the saved scenario 6- In the following attack WITH VERY HIGH PROBABILITY the plane BOMBS AGAIN! 7- SAVE the game 8- EXIT the scenario 9- RELOAD the saved scenario 10- In the following attack WITH VERY HIGH PROBABILITY the plane BOMBS AGAIN! ... and so on This is a bug as I am a programmer (and I am a programmer)... FredKors - Band of Brothers N.B. I corrected the link for the test scenario... [ December 07, 2004, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: FredKors ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Your link doesn't work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 It can carry either 1x550lb bomb or 4x110lb bombs, randomly. Maybe that explains? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 I think I see what Fred is trying to say. As I understand it, planes in CM are coded to use their primary weapons first, then follow up with strafing. Fred's test scenario confirms that the ME109 made one bomb pass, then strafed. But when he resaved and reloaded it was equipped with a second bomb. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredKors Posted December 7, 2004 Author Share Posted December 7, 2004 Originally posted by Kingfish: I think I see what Fred is trying to say. As I understand it, planes in CM are coded to use their primary weapons first, then follow up with strafing. Fred's test scenario confirms that the ME109 made one bomb pass, then strafed. But when he resaved and reloaded it was equipped with a second bomb. Exact! In a game I'm playing I have lost a plt of infantry for 4 bombings of a lone plane... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredKors Posted December 7, 2004 Author Share Posted December 7, 2004 N.B. I corrected the link for the test scenario... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Good find Fred, this far into the game's life! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredKors Posted December 7, 2004 Author Share Posted December 7, 2004 The same behaviour in CMAK! Test Scenario First Air Bombing Second Air Bombing... :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannon DC Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I have noticed -- and others concur -- that there are definately bugs with Air Support. My experience was different from Fredkors' -- in testing scenarios when an airstrike was 100% scheduled for a certain turn, the strike came in much later. Not only that... the airstrike REPEATED later in the game. For example, in one scenario ONE strike was schuduled for turn 10, at 100% certainty. It came in around turn 20... then again at turn 30! Two strikes when only one was in the unit pool. This has happened one more than one occasion with different scenarios. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conscript Bagger Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 It's been a while since I read that part of the manual, but isn't the timing of air support always somewhat random? I think specifying turn 10 only means it won't come in before then, but it may very well come later. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyepilot Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 I have been testing a scenario over and over and every air strike comes in @ different times no matter if its "for sure" on turn _ or not. I don't have a problem with that as so many other orders get re-interpreted anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 As others have already pointed out, air support always has a chance of being late, which is as designed. Of course, this still leaves the ammo replenishment bug. Dschugaschwili 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredKors Posted December 10, 2004 Author Share Posted December 10, 2004 There is anyone that could confirm this bug? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philippe Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 Has anyone performed the test described in the parallel thread in the CMAK forum ? Is the CMBB bug identical to the CMAK bug ? For those not familiar with that thread, the bug seems to only get triggered by multi-option load planes (different size bombs or rockets) and not single option loads (one kind of bomb and that's it). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredKors Posted December 12, 2004 Author Share Posted December 12, 2004 Originally posted by Philippe: Is the CMBB bug identical to the CMAK bug ? Yes, it is the same. I have posted the list of the planes of CMAK 'bugged'. Soon I'll post the list of the planes of CMBB. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philippe Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 This is perhaps very naive of me, but I'm also wondering whether a plane bugged in a Quick Battle will necessarily be bugged in a scenario, and whether both of those apply to PBEM's. I haven't really played CMBB yet so I can't comment, and though it stands to reason that the answer is probably yes, there's always a chance that this didn't get picked up before because it only shows up in a limited subset of all possible situations (= non-pbem quick battles only). To be scientific about this you have to test all four possible situations -- which is a little tricky with the PBEM. Knowing that the bug is operative in all four cases or only just some of them might help someone who was familiar with the hardcoded programming identify what the cause of the problem was. I'm guessing that the Il-2 Sturmovik is probably bugged (without even looking at what it carries in CMBB) simply because it was probably used as a multi-option plane. That would be sad if it were the case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Originally posted by Philippe: I'm guessing that the Il-2 Sturmovik is probably bugged (without even looking at what it carries in CMBB) simply because it was probably used as a multi-option plane. That would be sad if it were the case. No, Il-2 comes in several varieties. I don't remember if any of them were multi-option. This bug does occur also in PBEM mode, I have tested it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philippe Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 I wish you hadn't said that. The next question is whether the bug happens in QB's and scenario's, or just QB's. I noticed something in one of the bug lists that made me think the bug might not occur all of the time. Seems odd for a bug to occur less than 100%, unless the variables that trigger it aren't present and this difference hasn't been recorded. Until this gets resolved (if it ever does get resolved) I guess we just have to think of a single plane as several flights from a squadron that may or may not make multiple sequential passes over the battlefield. I hate being told that my toy is broken. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philippe Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Just took a look at one of the related threads in the other forum. If I understand correctly, if I play a PBEM and do not do a save in the middle of a turn the bug will not occur. Is that the case ? Does this then mean that the only way to avoid the bug on these aircraft is to play PBEM ? Is there no way to avoid it when playing against the AI other than never saving ? I think we need to focus on finding all the work-arounds on this one, because I really don't think it is going to get patched. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_KG_ThorsHammer Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 A plane set to arrive at a certain point can arrive up to 15 minutes later,,it is a randomness setting. Ive had a bf109 arrive in a few minutes, strafe a few times, then disappear for 10 minutes, only to return and drop his bomb load before leaving for good, and there was no enemy AA. There are definatley bugs though, the HS129 bombers dont tend to drop their bombs very often, they just make noise and then nothing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictorCharlie Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Wondering if any one has had the miss fortune to be attacked by enemy aircraft 20 seconds into a quick battle?!.....like me... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.A. Miles Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 I played a hotseat QB with a friend a year or two back, and my aircraft attacked in the first thirty seconds. As he was still moving in the open ground, the result wasn't pretty... The aftermath was so dismal, that he gave up and agreed to a ceasefire. Of course, I've played other QBs where the aircraft don't arrive until the last turn! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictorCharlie Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Ok i thought you had the 1 turn warning, fly over/sound, but obviously not! So stacking my troops up, in what I thought was a safe area, was a bad idea then, thanks to a 1100lbs bomb! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_KG_ThorsHammer Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Ive noticed that sometimes if there is a juicy enough target, a plane selected as part of the initial force selection wont bother with a fly over. Cost me a column of trucks during scenario testing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalgiris 1410 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Planes sometimes do that and just come zooming in for the kills against a big enough juicy consentration of targets! :eek: Thanks for the tests Fredkors, interesting but...see below and remember the related above warning in future all. Originally posted by Philippe: Just took a look at one of the related threads in the other forum. If I understand it correctly, if I play a PBEM and do not do a save in the middle of a turn the bug will not occur. Is that the case ? Does this then mean that the only way to avoid the bug on these aircraft is to play PBEM ? Is there no way to avoid it when playing against the AI other than never saving ? I think we need to focus on finding all the work-arounds on this one, because I really don't think it is going to get patched. I think that this 'bug' wont happen in Quick Battles if you play continuously even while saving every turn as long as you don't upload each next turn one after another after the multi-option aircraft first turns up. BTW I'm not seeing too much of an aircraft 'bug' here. In the test with just one little Russian platoon what does the Me need the 550k bomb for to hit such a target. It is right that it chooses to do bomb runs with the 110k stuff. Now the fact that it can actually choose it bombload layout beforehand according to its intended targets, that's an even bigger 'bug' then having such multi-option aircraft show up 4 turns in a row IMHO. Bear in mind that there is no enemy Flak or big tempting targets such as armour here in this example. It would be worse if the multi-option layout aircraft showed up and bombed more times in a row or not during a battle than its load carrying capacity allows for given the time frame of CM battles. Anyone claiming that? While I do see the annoyance with this minor 'in a row bomging bug', it does make sense to a degree but I wonder just what the odds or certainties are of these multi-option aircraft making such closely sequential bombing runs in CM games played out continuously without uploading each saved next turn anyway? Actually this test illustrates to me a fairly firm confirmation of this 'aircraft get to choose their load layout beforehand according to (borg) spotted or intended targets', as a 'bug' that I had always suspected. There was another thread recently about CM players vying with each other over their greatest sob stories about the most damage that they received from a single airstrike. (I can't remember if I contributed or not to be sure!) [ October 16, 2005, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: Zalgiris 1410 ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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