How to get better(mostly allied)?

[Paddington]

I have ben playing for a few years now. But still really cant get good results against human opponents. The MEs allways turn into a chess like game, I can never advance whit my tanks cause they will get shoot from the german uber kitties. No problems here, but the game doesn`t give the allied player any point bonus so that he could buy enough of those shermans or t34s to over-run the kitties.

Maybe I should advance my tanks close to the front whit my infantry? Or somefink?

[Sergei]

It shouldn't come as a surprise that Meeting Engagements do that to you. It's hard to advance against an equal sized opponent. Übertanks help here, but even then you'll have plenty of tactical problems.

As Allies, one thing you might consider is not to use your T-34's/Shermans against his Panzers but against his Infanterie. Use smoke when needed. Take advantage of your tanks' good mobility to overpower him locally. When that doesn't work, don't engage his Panzers.

[Bonxa]

Play something else, like an attack/defend QB or a well made scenario. I used to play ME QBs when I stared out with PBEM in the CMBO days but I haven't played one for years now except in a tourney.

ME's are hard and don't feel very realistic IMHO.

[Bruceov]

Engage his tanks with Antitank guns like the 17 lber

[flamingknives]

Gahhhh! 17pdr or 17pr.

'lber' is just wrong.

[GreenAsJade]

I agree with the advice "play something other than meeting engagements".

I too started with ME's 'cause I thought "this has to be the fairest: equal forces strengths, a true test of skill".

But

1) That's not true

2) ME's simply aren't as fun. They aren't as realistic, because in most cases in real life, commanders would have avoided meeting a force of equal size while on the move.

Also, it sounds like you are playing QBs. Play designer scenarios. They are much more fun, and much more varied.

GaJ

[dieseltaylor]

But then again some scenarios suck!

I am playing one now where the information is " more of your forces will be along shortly" . For Pete's sake I should know what the rest of my force consists of!!!!!

I think you might be playing your battles on smallish maps wish can be very lopsided. I have played 50 plus on large or huge maps whereby thats lots of room to sneak about and tactics to decide. I agree with GoJ about never fighting an even battle and with huge maps , provided they are not billiard smooth, it does mean you can attempt to achieve local superiority over part of his force.

BTW post Jan 1943 the tanks point situation in CMBB is probably the fair to both sides

On the realism stakes I would have said it is always been possible on breakthroughs for equalish forces to bump into each other. It is no doubt true attack defense was more common but then again large maps and decent size forces , 2-3k, means that even the defence can, as in real life, have a defence reserve able to move without being under direct fire.

So many of the small maps and small points means the whole battlefield can provide minimal cover for manouevering.

However scenarios

Counterattack at Galatas - truly excellent

Approach to Sevastapol ...... 45 turns and virtually unwinnable even against the AI

And look to the head of the forum - one of these messages has a sticky link to the MZO site and take part in the War College games - or read the last games AARs some are very instructive.

Happy playing

[Sergei]

Originally posted by flamingknives:

Gahhhh! 17pdr or 17pr.

'lber' is just wrong.

17£er?

[dieseltaylor]

OOps! being more helpful : )

http://central.masterzen.net

and scroll down!

Futhermore ..

Poor Old Spike has posted several interesting shots there of how visible units are in various cover. And other interesting jpgs worthy of download as a reminder.

Play the current WC2 game and then read the AAR's.

My brother who is a demon used to practice by buying the AI a load of tanks and himself one and go scuttling about practicing tank speed, reaction times and killing tanks as and when he could. The point being to practice and perfect.

I have been boring and worked out rates of fire for crack crews versus regulars etc. All of these things add up to getting better.

Knowing the capability of your guns for dealing with German tanks is vitally important and I am often amazed at people not checking throught h Russian and Allied guns to find the ones the Germans need to be scared of. : )

[GreenAsJade]

"Some scenarios suck".

Sure, but there are lots to choose from and lots of help to choose.

It's pretty hard to go wrong with a highly rated scenario at

The Scenario Depot

GaJ.

[GreenAsJade]

PS - I agree with your complaint about the briefing. If you don't like the briefing, you can always play a different scenario that has a better one. And you can give the author constructive feedback at the Depot.

And you can give everyone feedback about bow briefings should be in the recent thread in Scenario Discussions (I need someone to back me up that briefings should tell you useful information!)

GaJ.

[Ron]

Originally posted by dieseltaylor:

OOps! being more helpful : )

http://central.masterzen.net

and scroll down!

Futhermore ..

Poor Old Spike has posted several interesting shots there of how visible units are in various cover. And other interesting jpgs worthy of download as a reminder.

POS, while certainly a pompous, over-the-top character, has posted some very helpful and useful tips for rookies and veterans alike. Thanks for the link.

Ron

[HarryInk]

Paddington,

If you can put in the effort after a game but want to reap the benefits of accelerating your thinking, use Fionn Kelly's debrief 'form' that you'll find in this AAR on CMHQ (ahh... the sleeping site I just can't leave alone). It's thorough and confronts you with how you acted during the battle.

[Redwolf]

Use Allied tanks like the M3 medium or the Sherman to decimate his infantry, not to attack his tanks.

If you think in chess terms, he treatens your tanks and you threaten your infantry.

He must do something about it, he cannot allow you to operate your infantry freely and keep his back all the time.

The disadvantage of the better German tanks is that you get very few HE for the money you pay, so the German player cannot defeat your infantry with his tanks alone.

[Panzerjaeger]

You could try any of the following:

1. Use tank destroyers. The US M10 GMC can knock out even Tigers at short range. Try to get into a flank position and blow the kitten away.

2. The Panzer IV is almost equal to a Sherman at close range, so close in as fast as possible.

3. Use Anti-Tank teams, Engineers, Flamethrowers and AT guns.

4. Panthers and Mark IV's have thin side/rear armour so try to get around them. Use smoke to block their LOS's. This is particularly useful against Assault guns.

5. No tank is indestructible. Too many AP rounds clanging against the tank will eventually damage guns, immobilize or penetrate a weak point. The Tank might even panic.

All in all, the Allied player should fight against the German "übertanks" at close range and use the terrain to their advance.

-Panzerjaeger-

[Carl Puppchen]

Here is another tip - play RANDOM quick battle meeting engagements. Just pick combined arms on both sides (or both infantry, or whatever you agree on) and let the computer pick 'em. Sometimes you will have OK stuff, sometimes you will have absoute crap. But if you play against a good human after a while you can "phone in" what they are going to pick as a combination of the time, terrain, etc... I know grogs hate these things as gamey but they can be a heck of a lot of fun. And one thing for sure - having no idea of what your opponent has definitely adds to the "fog of war".

As Allies in CMBB you can pick great weapons. The T34 is a fine tank and the early war KV1 is virtually unbeatable. In late war pick the JS II with some SU 152 support and you can do well. In most years except for the very end the 76mm AT gun is cheap and pretty deadly against all but the heaviest German tanks.

In CMAK it is a bit harder. The Sherman stands up well vs the axis in the desert and the Grant / Lee is murder on the PZ III models. Yes in late war Europe if your opponent always takes Panthers you will have trouble but the 17 pounder is good if you can get it in position and are clever with placement (or lucky in the meeting engagement map).

[guachi]

You can also play with rarity on. The Allied stuff (well, mostly US) is extremely low rarity in CMAK. The Americans ALWAYS have a Sherman at -10% rarity.

Sure, it makes it fairly easy to figure out what your opponent will buy, but playing different time periods really makes for very different games.

I agree with the idea of playing scenarios. I'm currently playing my first PBEM game of CMAK. I intentionally picked the earliest scenario shipped with the game - a December 1940 scenario pitting English vs. Italians.

The scenario overview mentions that the British ran roughshod over the Italians, partly because the Matilda II was invulnerable.

I'm the Italians and I can definitely say that's true. Quite an unusual battle. I have been getting an unnatural amount of track hits/immobilizations though.

I don't even care if I lose (And I likely am. Immobilizing tanks gives me no points) because the scenario is so entertaining.

Jason

[Snorri]

me play *premade* scenarios vs. AI, (just returned:cmak) and used to play operations mainly.[edit]

..WHERE I LIKE TO ADD! OPERATION SHOULDN`T MEAN: ABOVE BATALLION_SIZE_BATTLE BY DEFAULT!

(no it`s not the ueber-op snorri, hehe, no-no [ueber wie in überflüssig, übergeschnappt, oder californien..)

nm..team desorby is back..[edit]

->(concidering this topic)

historic scenarios (*set by designer`s*) have even more *expiering* content, if you re-start them in order to get different weather conditions. don`t play a scenario only once.[edit] and quit these qb...

[this post with little to no content was heavily edited due to redwolf`s..]

[ May 16, 2004, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: Snorri ]

[Redwolf]

What?

[Tripps]

Well, i always try and engage tanks in the following order:

1. Infantry

2. Guns

3. My tanks

It usually works out to be 2 1 3.

But it works for me

[BigDork]

Thanks for the plug DT! But MZO has actually moved, it's now at forums.mzocentral.net. Or just click on my sig to go right to the CM part of MZO.

PoS definatly has some interesting ideas and no doubt they get results. Here are the threads dieseltaylor was talking about...

Can He See Me?

Can He See Me 2(Hiding)?

Can He See Me 3(foxholes)?

Can He See My Guns?

-BigD