Deadly 88 Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Quick Comments : Koltov Corridor - Attacking as Russians. I used HQ units on tanks to improve LOS and spotted many empty? foxholes (behind/beside buildings) in various spots in my advance. Moving Closer enabled me to see more foxholes in woods. Assuming he was using covered arc commands, I moved infantry into Blind LOS and moved them forward...eventually Area Firing my tanks and grunts into some not so empty foxholes. Then they broke and ran from cover...Ouch! I took a chance in the middle and Fast moved my tanks/trucks with grunts right into the town and behind the big factories. No losses. As I moved into the factories, the firefight began. I lost 4 T-34's and half my infantry platoon (in the factory) in one turn. Next turn I killed 1 Stug, & gun-hit the other, then mopped up his infantry with my remaining tanks. Careful study of the map showed where I would place a AT-Gun (if I had one)...elevated hill at back middle of map, in trees...so I moved my Arty spotter into LOS and called it in. He opened fire with 2 Guns from these woods 1.5 minutes before my Arty hit him. It took his whole load, but he got both guns. My opponent got the drop on me with his 2 Pz Mk IV's...he went Hull-Down and engaged 4 Su-85's that were busy Area-Firing at enemy troops. He must have fired off about 10 rounds total from both of them...missing or bouncing. My Su-85's eventually turned and fired at the threat...killing one and Gun-hitting the other. As I rolled up both flanks and pushed the middle, I found both gun-hit tanks and killed them both. Shortly after there was an auto-surrender. I had plenty of Luck in this one. If my opponent had of placed his units in buildings, or fox-holes deeper in the woods...and not suffered 2 crippling gun-hits...and only had one AT Gun in those woods...it would have been a different story. River Battle - Silly me, real life issues forced me to start the battle with the Default set-up as the Germans. Just made it more interesting I guess. I used my assests aggressively in Recon roles...pushing forward everywhere...trying to spot his advance. By turn 10, I had covered his entire left flank and spotted nothing (from the reinforcement point to his map edge), and was moving slowly on his other flank and still had no idea where he was. I kept the reinforcement Stug Hull-Down, but exited everything else as it became available (except for a Lost Panther & 2 Half-tracks that oddly appeared between the river and the woods). Finally I spotted the Entire Russian Tank Army in an Assembly Area out of my LOS (except for a HQ unit that sneaked into their LOS)...must have had about 20 tanks of all sizes, half-tracks & trucks, all with infantry on them. I figure he was waiting for all his reinforcements before attacking. (I found out later that my opponent was afraid of the Gun-Bug, or indestructible Hull-down inf/At guns...little did he know that they were all in the woods but not Hull-Down). This gave me the chance to move all my troops to the Centre Flag and hide. His forces moved forward, I dropped mortar, MG, and small arms on the infantry, seperating them from the tanks. This slowed him down. He eventually made it to the small VL and crested the slope. That's when all hell broke loose. His troops never made it past the Trench line, and his tanks were hit from all sides with Tank & AT Gun fire. At the same time my grunts close Assaulted his tanks from all angles. Battle ended shortly after that with auto-surrender. High Road - Again, as the Germans (Real life issues), I went with the Default set-up (what a mess). I really disliked this battle for the first 20 turns. My opponent didn't have much to do except have me walk through an Arty barrage on turns 3-5, and watch his tripwire forces cause havoc with my advance. I on the other hand spent way too much time trying to plot movements through the Mountains, in trees, slopes, rough etc...in the rain. Then watch my forces bump into each other, resetting their way-points, getting tired, and not moving very far. Back to the battle...my advance force went right for the village, but spotted a trench, then another trench, and 2 Concrete Bunkers on the opposite side of the River...so they sneaked up to the trench and area targeted with satchel charges. Killed a platoon and retreated back into the woods. Then they headed for the woods opposite the bridge (Major VL). Eventually, my largest force made it to the Village and settled into positions all along the ridge/tree line waiting for the mortars to arrive. My reinforcements arrived in a very unexpected spot...giving me designs on the Major VL in a pincer attack (with the advance force). The idea was to ford the river, sneak as far up the river bed as possible, then with cover fire from the advance force (with 81mm spotter) and units in overwatch, take the bridge. More on that later. I also had a small force on the other side of the river who were to advance as far as they could, drawing fire and trying to get to the now spotted Concrete Bunkers. Probably about turn 30 is when all my forces where ready for their coordinated attacks. The Bunker force moved up the River bank and knocked out both Bunkers. The Advance Force watched my reinforcements advance unopposed to the Major VL and occupy an empty trench beside it. Then my advance force joined the Major attack. With mortars and area fire, I targeted all MG Bunkers, trenches, foxholes, 2 light tanks, and buildings with suspected units. My advance force met up with parts of the Major force and began rolling up the flank from the enemy's rear. Finally around turn 34 - 36 my 8 HMG's made it to the fight and laid down alot of suppressing fire. My troops advanced once the bunkers were knocked out and kept pushing towards the 2 minor VL's. Turn 39 was an auto-surrender. If I was the defender, I would have been really bored with this battle...and as the attacker, it was alot of micro-managing that takes away from the Fun Factor...the reason I play this game. All in all...I enjoyed the Tournament. See you in the Desert Deadly 88 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mPisi Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Hoping for results bump... if Juha and me ever agree on our results LOL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted November 11, 2003 Author Share Posted November 11, 2003 I'll be posting later on tonight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mPisi Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Just keeping it easily found. Petroskov Bridge was a big mess for me. THinking I was in a pursuit situation, I spread my forces out too much, which helped eliminate some of the fleeing Germans. But when I hit the defensive line, I did not have the force or the momentum to make much progress. I was also playing so many early-war battles that I drove my tanks right up the the enemy infantry and lost one to a Schrek . Eventually I worked my way through the Germans and took the center small flag, but without much left. I had an SU and maybe a couple tanks going for te bridge at the end, but verything had pretty much escaped by the time I had LOS at the bridge. I'm still a little confused on the exit points. Pacestick had exited alot of stuff, but still had the Panther, 3 HTs, a platoon(-) and some support weapons that should have exited on the board. But the final score tally did not seem to reflect the points I should have gotten for those troops which were not exited(or penalty points applied to him, I forget which it is). Has it changed since CMBO? The final screen showed casualty points for both of us, but only 1038 exited troops points for the Germans. Are the penalty points for remaining units just deducted from the exited points total? I still haven't seen the German unit list, I guess it is possible there was so much to exit and still subtract 600 or so points to remain at 1038? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted November 13, 2003 Author Share Posted November 13, 2003 Finalists, I have sent you all an e-mail with attached spreadsheet and a question. Please take a moment to respond, as I would like to hear from each of you on this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Kingfish. I believe that Holien is currently on holiday overseas with his newly betrothed so I'm not sure how long he'll be away before being able to read his emails. He left a bit over a week ago. Regards Jim R. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Brazil is sooooo Hot.... Debbie is sat by me as we were just checking E-Mails and I could not resist peeking in here. I have not seen the e-mail and may try and see it next if I can access it. If I cannot access it please note Kingfish that I will follow Jim's lead, aka Kanonier. Right I will now see if I can access my e-mail... If you hear no more then accept what Jim says as my response. Cheers H 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 The only trouble is H is that I'm not one of the finalists so I wont be receiving the email Kingfish refers to in his post. It appears you're on your own on this one. Regards Jim R. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 HI KR, get them to send the e-mail to you... Just been around the fort at the end of the cocapabanna beach (spelling). Great miltary musuem with some good exhibts. Two 390mm naval guns in the fort. Very impressive!! Also found a German Pak 40 AT gun. I guess Brazil got a lot of WWII items? Anyway I am sure a decision will be reached, I am guessing that KF has not been able to get something sorted. Must go Debbie is off buying clothes..... H 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mPisi Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Little bump... High Road was all in the setup for the defender. Due to some burnout problems it took me over a month, to Holien's annoyance. After that, it was mostly a game of responding to Holien's attacks. He couldn't come close to my cliff-hugging emplacements for the bunkers and support weapons. The battle might be a little more interesting with some heavier support weapons for the Germans, to duel with the bunkers. Something with a faster speed to move cross-country. I was wondering how the various recoilless-rifles would work. Even a 20mm gun would be interesting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Hi, Just for the record I was not annoyed about the time you took for your setup. It was a welcome break. What did annoy me was that you had placed the bunkers in such a way that I could not touch the sodding things... The island trick was very neat and the use of cliffs to protect the rears was also a tad annoying. As with all games it is what you and your opponent does with the forces you have. You placed them and your defences in optimal positions which meant that I could do little. I would challenge anyone to win that scenario with the way you deployed. If they did win I would learn heaps so anyone fancy taking Mpisi on please let us know (the forum)... Anyway I have had my fix so back to the pool and some more beer.... H 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 I wish I'd thought of placing my gun pillboxes on the islands in the middle of the river. They would have been unassailable and no doubt have done alot more damage than they did. I'm wondering whether the scenario designer intended this possibility to arise where certain fortifications would be unable to be assaulted? Regards Jim R. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mPisi Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 I fussed with the island for an hour before finally deciding to only put one 76mm pillbox there, its back to the water. I believe it could have been knocked out especially if approached from both sides, trying to traverse the gun from side to side. It really doesn't have that great LOS, it just covers the bridge, the big slope to to left of the bridge, and limited parts of the right side (viewed from the defender's perspective). I felt there was better uses for the other. However it was the end point of my line of fortifications. In general, going up the valley from back to front, each bunker or pillbox could cover the rear of the one in front of it. As far as I could tell, I don't think there were many if any positions that were totally unapproachable. Some were very tough to get to though, could be done but not worth it in losses or time. Each pillbox or bunker I perched on the left wall had some kind of infantry defender hidden to cover its rear. Generally there would be only one path to reach within 30m of the rear of the bunker, and even a spare platoon HQ will be able to hold that for a while, from ambush. Where there was space, I would put sharpshooters, mortars, the FO, etc, so they would be similarly protected from assault. As I figured the major attack would be coming from the right side, the pillboxes and bunkers were all on the left, generally sited to shoot across the river. On the right I had small groups of support weapons that could shoot to the left side, or defend at close range on the right side. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frunze Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Wait, I tried to put stuff on the islands, but couldn't. I thought they were out of my setup zone. Well, I did put a TRP on the last one, which paid off big-time... Combined Arms wrote: On the other hand, I had a workable plan, I think, as the Russians in Petroskov River Bridge. I decided to race much of my armor down the left side of the map to get into overwatch positions on the bridge. I approached the small flag in the center with infantry and some of the reinforcement armor. I took the small central flag but basically didn't worry too much about taking the bridge itself. Instead I tried to control the exiting off the bridge. That worked pretty well. I was afraid my opponent would do something like that in Petroskov...or sit on the hill with the little flag and shoot stuff moving down the road. (I made sure to have both 88s with LOS to my side of that hill.) How close did you have to get to have LOS to the bridge? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mPisi Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Sorry... the island I am talking about is the one at the rear of the Russian position - between the bridge and where the reinforcements appear. It has LOS to maybe the back edge of the village but not much further. I had a TRP on the front island IIRC, it was pretty much my only defence if there were any vehicles trying to cross the shallow fords. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 So Kingfish, any chance of some Nabla adjusted results yet and the final winners? Regards Jim R. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted November 19, 2003 Author Share Posted November 19, 2003 So Kingfish, any chance of some Nabla adjusted results yet and the final winners? But of course... First off, let me put up some numbers and explain as I go: The Petroskov River Bridge Wellsonian - 39 (-.027)(-.13) / Lt Bull - 61 (0.27)(.13) Juha - 66 (.243)(1.14) / Holien - 34 (-.243)(-1.14) Bryce Baker - 29 (-.127)(-.60) / Frunze - 71 (.127)(.60) mPisi - 41 (-.007)(-.03) / Pacestick - 59 (.007)(.03) Shock Trooper - 8 (-.337)(-1.59) / Deadly 88 - 92 (.337)(1.59) MikeyDz - 51 (.093)(.44) / JPS - 49 (-.093)(-.44) Wade - 65 (.233)(1.10) / jjelinek - 35 (-.233)(-1.10) Stoneage - 11 (-.307)(-1.45) / Kanonier Reichmann - 89 (.307)(1.45) Tweety - 41 (-.007)(-.03) / tabpub - 59 (.007)(.03) Combined arms - 66 (.243)(1.14) / Spanish Bombs - 34 (-.243)(-1.14) Median allied - .417 / axis - .583 Standard Deviation allied - .2123 / axis - .2123 The Koltov Corridor Holien - 32 (-.124)(-.54) / Pacestick - 68 (.124)(.54) Lt Bull - 18 (-.264)(-1.14) / Shock Trooper - 82 (.264)(1.14) Deadly 88 - 85 (.406)(1.75) / Wellsonian - 15 (-.406)(-1.75) Juha - 28 (-.164)(-.71) / mPisi - 72 (.164)(.71) Frunze - 81 (.366)(1.58) / MikeyDz - 19 (-.366)(-1.58) JPS - 42 (-.024)(-.10) / Bryce - 58 (.024)(.10) Flammenwerfer - 42 (-.024)(-.10) / Tabpub - 58 (.024)(.10) jjelinek - 37 (-.074)(-.032) / Ted - 61 (.024)(.10) Combined arms - 22 (-.224)(.97) / Stoneage - 78 (.224)(.97) Kanonier Reichmann - 57 (.126)(.54) / Spanish Bombs - 43 (-.126)(-.54) Median allied - .444 / axis - .556 Standard Deviation allied - .2318 / axis - .2318 The High Road Shock Trooper - 65 (.081)(.46) / Wellsonian - 35 (-.081)(-.46) Pacestick - 62 (.051)(.29) / Juha - 38 (-.051)(-.29) Frunze - 54 (-.029)(-.16) / JPS - 46 (.029)(.16) mPisi - 77 (.201)(1.13) / Holien - 23 (-.203)(-1.13) Lt Bull - 19 (-.379)(-2.14) / Deadly 88 - 81 (.379)(2.14) MikeyDz - 44 (-.129)(-.73) / Bryce Baker - 56 (.129)(.73) Tweety - 59 (.021)(.12) / Flammenwerfer - 41 (-.021)(-.12) Kanonier Reichmann - 55 (-.019)(-.11) / Combined arms - 45 (.019)(.11) Spanish bombs - 77 (.201)(1.13) / Stoneage - 23 (-.201)(-1.13) Median allied - .569 / axis - .431 Standard Deviation allied - .1774 / axis - .1774 The first number to the right of each name is the players scenario score. The next number to the right is the difference between the players scenario score and the median for his side The final number is the normalized difference from the median. This number is derived by dividing the difference from the median by the standard deviation. If you go here and scroll down to section 3.4 you will see that I have completed steps 1-5. Steps 6 requires that the normalized difference be inserted into the Nabla program in order to get a Nabla score. Here is where we run into a small problem. To date only Nabla (Jarmo Hurri) and Treeburst 155 have this program. Jarmo has responded to my e-mails (I've given up on TB155), but he is extremely busy at the moment and can't get the program codes to me right away. So, to complete the scoring with the Nabla system we will have to wait. However, as I have explained to the 12 finalists in a previous e-mail, I believe we can announce the winners without having to use the Nabla program. Here are the averages of each players normalized differences: Juha - 1.14 / -.71 / -.29 = .05 Holien - -1.14 / -.054 / -1.13 = -.94 Pacestick - .03 / .54 / .29 = .29 mPisi - -.03 / .71 / 1.13 = .60 Bryce Baker - -.6 / .1 / .73 = .08 Frunze - .6 / 1.58 / -.16 = .67 MickeyDz - .44 / -1.58 / -.73 = -.62 JPS - -.44 / -.1 / .16 = -.13 Wellsonian - -.13 / -1.75 / -.46 = -.78 Lt Bull - .13 / -1.14 / -2.14 = -1.05 Shock Trooper - -1.59 / 1.14 / .46 = 0.00 Deadly 88 - 1.59 / 1.75 / 2.14 = 1.83 As you can see the 3 top finalists are Deadly 88 with 1.83, Frunze with .68 and mPisi with .60. The next runner up is Pacestick with .29. Even taking into account his three AARs (which I appreciate BTW) he won't be able to raise his score enough to overtake mPisi and gain the number 3 slot. Therefore, unless someone objects, I would like to wrap this up and officially announce the winners of ROW III as Deadly 88, Frunze and John Kettl...er, mPisi. Each of you will receive 12 bottles of fine South African wine from our most generous sponser, Winecape. Guys, Please e-mail me the address you would like the wine shipped to and I will pass it on to Winecape. Everyone, I would like to thank you very much for participating, and for your patience and understanding during those slight 'bumps' in the road 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Let me be the 1st to congratulate you guys. Now I know who to watch out for and am looking forward to playing each of you in RoW-IV. Another great tournament finished. I’d like to thank Treeburst for starting it and Kingfish for ending. Well done guys. Well, catch you all in the desert. Ted 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 So is Deadly88 the over all winner? If so, Deadly, please contact me, I will make arrangements for the Band of Borthers CDs or a copy of CMAK. Rune 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Bombs Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Congratulations to the winners, and glad to see that this thing got wrapped up. Thanks especially to Kingfish for picking up the ball and running with it after the big controversy. But, hey, now that CMAK is here (or at least on its way), CMBB is so yesterday. Winning a CMBB tourney is sort of like winning the Arena Football League championship, right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Hey...what about the averages for us non-finalists? We count too you know! Regards Jim R. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted November 20, 2003 Author Share Posted November 20, 2003 Ask, and ye shall receive... Kanonier Reichmann - 1.45 / .54 / -.11 - .63 Combined Arms - 1.14 / -.97 / .11 - .09 Spanish Bombs - -1.14 / -.54 / 1.13 - -.18 Stoneage - -1.45 / .97 / -1.13 - -.54 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Thanks Kingfish. Interestingly, the only player who was able to avoid a negative Nabla adjusted score when playing all 3 scenario's was Deadly 88 indicating that he consistantly performed above the median no matter whom the opponent. Well done and congratulations. Regards Jim R. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mPisi Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 So now that we're done, can somebody from section 1 explain the "magic" gun position that caused a fuss when we looked at switching to 1.03? I believe it was Holien and Juha's game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WineCape Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Hello Gents, Just bear with me; I’m out of my wine shop (due to professional soccer officiating duties) and will get back to the winners soon, depending on schedule. Congrats again to the winners of the RoW III. It was/is a pleasure to sponsor these excellent tourneys, and I hope the winners and participants enjoyed it, the best way to play new scenarios IMHO. Sergio, a word of thanks for stepping in on short notice to manage ROW. It takes a lot of time/effort to run this smoothly and I appreciate your efforts! If memory serves correctly, I made a couple of wine offers to you too, but your state treats you like a 6 year old child when it comes to alcohol. Do you have a relative living in a more enlightened state as per www.wineinstitute.org? Let me know and we can make a plan. Speak to the winners soon again to get their mPisi and Frunze’s preferences. Enjoy CMAK’s demo! Sincerely, Yours in wine Charl Theron ----------------------------------------------------- </font>Wine donation send to Fuerte for his PBEM HELPER, an excellent tool - it even lets you play 2 PBEM turns per e-mail exhange - if you play more than one PBEM at a time and have a Windows OS</font>Sponsor of the (now infamous) Invitational (Ari Maenpaa)</font>Sponsor of the 2 WineCape Tourneys (Fangorn’s Brazilian customs drank the wine prize up! + KiwiJoe)</font>Sponsor of the Nordic Championships in honor of Nabla (His scoring system revolutionized CM tourney play)</font>Rumblings of War, aka RoW tourney sponsor</font>RoW I winner: </font>Wreck</font>RoW II co-winners: </font>Ali</font>Kanonier Reichmann</font>Jon_L</font>RoW III co-winners: </font>Deadly 88</font>Frunze</font>mPisi</font></font>Grateful donateur to the drinking habits of Battlefront.com (Baldy received the Fat Bastard Chardonnay)</font>Thank You donation send to Manx (He used to run the “sexiest CMBO modsite on the net”)</font>Wine donation send to Boots & Tracks for their scenarios created specifically for RoW tournaments</font>Wine donation send to Gordon Molek for his CMMOS utility (Thereby making the installing of CM mods a breeze)</font>Wine donation send to Andrew Fox for his CM modding work</font>Wine donation send to Keith Miller @ Scenario Depot for his dedication in hosting CM scenarios</font>Sponsor-to-be of Pengville’s “Gamey Bastard” tourney (In honor of Seanachai + Lars for showing an act of kindness to an outerboarder - Well, bribery does pay.)</font> [ November 21, 2003, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: WineCape ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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