Movie about Kursk?

[legend42]

I was reading about The Battle of The Bulge movie in the Cmak forum and it got me thinking why hasnt there been a movie about the greatest tank battle in history?Kursk.I know its not a mainstream war topic, but niether was Cross of Iron and that got made.You would think that some russian producer would have made something about this.What a great topic for a movie and an awsome

undertaking it would be.It could be done today more accuratley than ever in the age of computer graphics.

[Larry Thorne]

I agree, the Ostfront is the last frontier of warmovies. Battle of the Bulge sure was a legendary encirclement battle but, sizewise in men and equipment, it is nothing compared to those big encirlement battles throughout WWII at Ostfront. IMHO the huge battles fought in there would probably intrest movie audiences through the world too even if it is not a mainstream topic...there were heroes on Ostfront too

[Sergei]

Maybe you haven't thought about the realities and restrictions of film making. Producing such a film would be very costly (unless you opt for CGI tanks), and to make that investment pay itself back it'd have to have potential of attracting wide audiences (yes, including WOMEN - meaning that there has to be heterosexual romance, fortunately Soviets had female tankers so...). But as a historical topic 'Kursk' isn't exactly a cash magnet comparable to 'Titanic' - it is not even as well known as Stalingrad or El Alamein, and even those don't ring the bell for a lot of people, let alone make them interested. And Russian studios just can't afford something as expensive as SPR, because the market is considerably smaller.

What kind of plot would a film about tank battle have, anyway? Films usually concentrate on people, not weapon systems (unless the tanks are given faces and personalities - if this was an animation, it could work). That is why infantry is a far more fruitful subject for war movies. Also, for a film about Stalingrad the context is obvious - the conditions in the city were pretty much unique for the whole war. But if you go down to the level of individuals, how did some clash between two tank companies differ whether it was to south of Kursk or if it happened at roughly the same time in some other sector of the East Front? How would Kursk work as a movie?

Instead of asking for a Russian "Battle of the Bulge" (which wasn't good anyway), I think what we really need is a comedy like "Ivanov's Heroes", in which yefreiter Ivanov hears about a huge German cognac depot and gathers a taskforce of the willing to liberate the beverages...

[Dandelion]

...Actually the Soviets made countless warmovies after the war, many invlolving hundreds of T-34's rolling by, even in trivial scenes. Haven't laboured myself through so many, as access was scarce in Germany, but I know for a fact there are huge amounts of these produced. Both for movie theatres and TV. Surely Kursk will have been the topic of at least one.

Of course they are pathetic melodrama with sentimental patriotism all over them, but so are all Hollywood movies.

Don't we have any actual real life Russians on this board? Anyone of them should be able to locate these old rolls I imagine.

Come to think of it, I seem to recall that the Poles and Yugoslavs also made quite a few warmovies after the war? We do at least have such nationals on the board, no? Any Kursk in any of those?

Cheerio

Dandelion

[Larry Thorne]

Producing such a film would be very costly (unless you opt for CGI tanks), and to make that investment pay itself back it'd have to have potential of attracting wide audiences (yes, including WOMEN - meaning that there has to be heterosexual romance, fortunately Soviets had female tankers so...). But as a historical topic 'Kursk' isn't exactly a cash magnet comparable to 'Titanic'

...stop killing me

What kind of plot would a film about tank battle have, anyway? Films usually concentrate on people, not weapon systems (unless the tanks are given faces and personalities - if this was an animation, it could work)

How about making it Bob The Builder style tanks with eyes noses and mouth

"Ivanov's Heroes", in which yefreiter Ivanov hears about a huge German cognac depot and gathers a taskforce of the willing to liberate the beverages...

Man you ought to tell Renny Harlin about this idea of yours :cool:

-LT

[DasNoogie]

they could cast mel gibson as a tank commander who has to fight the germans, avenge his dead comrades, deal with his nightmares from his time in stalingrad, get payback from the russian general who killed his family and raped his sisters, deal with commissars, and hide his love of religion from the NKVD.

it could work.

[HeinzBaby]

The Russians did make a movie called Kursk.

I went to see it at the 'Cinerama' in Wellington New Zealand with my Dad way back in the late 60's/early 70's.

It came out at about the same time as 'Battle of Britain' and 'Battle of the Bulge'.

Distinctly remember the slow moving 'Tiger' turret trying to aim down a trench running under a gardengate, and the Soviet HQ discussing the use of search/lights for the up comming counteroffensive.

Thought it better that the Bulge movie at the time, but now must rest there with the other 60's-70's movies - corn

[DeaconBlue]

It's true you wouldn't be able to make a decent movie out of it - one that would make money by the millions - but then again, there isn't any directors of Sam Peckinpahs caliber to film it.

Ever see that German movie "Stalingrad" ?? The ending was a bit too theatrical for me but the rest was okay.

[John Kettler]

legend42,

I don't pretend to know what's actually been made, but I do know that someone has put a great deal of time, energy and presumably cash into developing a Kursk screenplay, complete with storyboards and shot lists. A Google search under "Kursk screenplay" or similar should bring it up. Believe you'll find it of considerable interest.

Regards,

John Kettler

[PiggDogg]

Battle of the Bulge sure was a legendary encirclement battle

With all due respect, except for two regiments of the US 106th Infantry Division which were surrendered and the US 101st Airborne which was surrounded and subsequently relieved, please explain how was the Battle of the Bulge an encirclement battle, legendary or non-legendary?

in men and equipment, [the Battle of the Bulge] is nothing compared to those big encirlement battles throughout WWII at Ostfront.

With further due respect, it might be a bit of an overstatement to set for that in terms of men & equipment that the Bulge was "nothing compared to those big encirclement battles throughout WWII" on the East Front.

While certainly being smaller than the commitment at some of the East Front battles such as Kursk and Stalingrad, the Axis and Allied commitment of men and materiale at the Bulge certainly compares in quantity with those of the East Front.

Richard

[David I]

Sergei,

I can't remember that many hetrosexual scenes in Saving Private Ryan (great movie). The problem Hollywood has is that they try to go for that "formula" that will get everybody's interest, by doing so they create artificial situations in order to fit in some romance, or that tender moment, or that product promently displayed. When they do they lose their audiance, the ones they are so desperately aiming at, because it feels fake.

Compare "Saving Private Ryan" (or better yet "Band of Brothers") and "The Gates of Stalingrad" (or as I call it "Lust in the Rubble"). The one made millions and it's DVD is owned by millions, "Gates.." on the other hand is dead.

Kursk done the right way, don't tell the whole story, but tell enough so that the audiance feels the scope of it, could be a winner.

Unfortunately in the Robber Baron situation in Russia, it is unlikely to happen. To bad.

DavidI

[Sergei]

Originally posted by David I:

Sergei,

I can't remember that many hetrosexual scenes in Saving Private Ryan (great movie).

The invasion of Normandy and the battle of Kursk (or Stalingrad) aren't the same business-wise. The SPR theme was guaranteed to be easy to market in USA, which is the biggest market. But US consumers are not interested in foreign movies or movies about foreigners, so it'd have to go to pharsical lengths in the pursuit of getting the attention of the paying audiences. A film directed by Steven Spielberg is also going to attract full theaters in premier, which the Ukrainian Igor Sczctenovsky's name wouldn't do. And if you don't aim high in the US, then you will have to cut the budget down.

Besides, the plot in SPR was corn even without any romance like in Enemy at Gates or Pearl Harbor.

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by DasNoogie:

they could cast mel gibson as a tank commander who has to fight the germans, avenge his dead comrades, deal with his nightmares from his time in stalingrad, get payback from the russian general who killed his family and raped his sisters, deal with commissars, and hide his love of religion from the NKVD.

it could work.

Yup. Just need to change "Germans" to "British" and I'm sure Mel would go for it.

And if anyone later objects that the British did not invade the Soviet Union in 1941 you just roll your eyes and say "It's only a film, people don't want 100% historical accuracy, nerd-boy".

All the best,

John.

[Cthulhu Dreams]

Actually, I'd content you don't need hetrosexual romance in a film targeted at US markets, but you do need romance

http://www.ruthlessreviews.com/80saction/commando.html

Will be enlightening:)

[Larry Thorne]

PiddDogg

I was just trying to make a point that there were many huge encirclements (and other battles) in the east front. For example june 27 1941 Panzergruppe Guderian and Hoth encircled 300000 russians along with 2500 tanks within the Minsk pocket. This was the first of the great pockets they did during WWII (Panzerkrieg pg 103.)

All due respect, Sir I was not trying to put down the great Battle of Bulge. Just making a point that these mighty clashes happened in ostfront too but are not as much know as

Ukrainian Igor Sczctenovsky

is not going to sell his movies across the world

As x-mas is knocking on our doors we can IMHO stop for a second and think what was going on in Belgium 60yrs ago

Regards

-LT

[Wodin]

I really liked Stalingrad apart from the dubbing. It sounded as if it was dubbed by the same people who dub Manga films.

[Wodin]

Cross of Iron was good too.

[Shmavis]

Originally posted by David I:

Sergei,

I can't remember that many hetrosexual scenes in Saving Private Ryan (great movie). The problem Hollywood has is that they try to go for that "formula" that will get everybody's interest, by doing so they create artificial situations in order to fit in some romance, or that tender moment, or that product promently displayed. When they do they lose their audiance, the ones they are so desperately aiming at, because it feels fake.

Compare "Saving Private Ryan" (or better yet "Band of Brothers") and "The Gates of Stalingrad" (or as I call it "Lust in the Rubble"). The one made millions and it's DVD is owned by millions, "Gates.." on the other hand is dead.

Kursk done the right way, don't tell the whole story, but tell enough so that the audiance feels the scope of it, could be a winner.

Unfortunately in the Robber Baron situation in Russia, it is unlikely to happen. To bad.

DavidI

Who knows? If they could have the story revolve around one or two people, say, a German and a Russian tank commander, a film that would interest a wide audience could be feasible. Then again, will many people care about a clash between two basically evil empires? I would say, also, that the world was ready for a film like "Saving Private Ryan" after so much corn.

[Peterk]

There's a book out right now called Final Citadel in which the author does just that...back and forth between the Germans and Russians. Pretty decent ...and he managed to stick a babe and a romance into the story too.

[Sergei]

Originally posted by Shmavis:

Who knows? If they could have the story revolve around one or two people, say, a German and a Russian tank commander, a film that would interest a wide audience could be feasible.

Movies set around opposing commanders don't work. Not in a war movie, anyway. Maybe in a Shakespearean drama.

[Nick Schieben]

I saw a bit of a Russian movie on Dutch or Belgian TV in the late 70s. I amost looked like it was filmed on the battle site using actual wrecks. There were lots of authentic-looking vehicles, including Elefants. I wish I could find the name of it.

The Battlefield series on Discovery also has an excellent 2 part documentary on Kursk.

Regards

[PiggDogg]

Laggy Thorne,

I was just trying to make a point that there were many huge encirclements (and other battles) in the east front. For example june 27 1941 Panzergruppe Guderian and Hoth encircled 300000 russians along with 2500 tanks within the Minsk pocket. This was the first of the great pockets they did during WWII (Panzerkrieg pg 103.)

Yes, the great 1941 battles of encirclement are well known to students of WWII.

All due respect, Sir I was not trying to put down the great Battle of Bulge.

It was never stated that you were "trying to put down the great Battle of [the] Bulge."

Just making a point that these mighty clashes happened in ostfront too but are not as much know as

As stated earlier, the great 1941 battles of encirclement are well known to students of WWII.

I asked how the Battle of the Bulge was an encirclement battle. Also, I stated that it might be a bit of an overstatement to set forth that in terms of men & equipment that the Bulge was "nothing compared to those big encirclement battles throughout WWII" on the East Front.

Despite being American and not to denigrate the Western Allies' contribution to WWII, I am well aware that the brave Russian peoples primarily ground Germany to a pulp and set Germany up for defeat by their massive sacrifices and by the gargantuan butcher bill that they paid. In my opinion, barring US nuclear weapons, it is doubtful that the western Allies could have paid or would have been willing to pay the butcher bill required to defeat Germany.

Richard

[ December 19, 2004, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: PiggDogg ]

[Glider]

Originally posted by Dandelion:

... I seem to recall that the Poles and Yugoslavs also made quite a few warmovies after the war? We do at least have such nationals on the board, no? Any Kursk in any of those?

Cheerio

Dandelion

No, no Yugoslav ones. I do not think we made a single movie about any battle outside Yugoslavia. OTOH, the ones we made are great, they have been making me laugh since I was about 10.

[David Chapuis]

The movie I would like to see made is the one about Yeo-Thomas (The White Rabbit). To be done right it would need to be a Band of Brothers-like mini-series.

That would appeal to American and European audiences.

Another movie that I think could be made that would be very successful is about the massacre at No Gun Ri in Korea. It would need to have 'war' as the bad guy, not be an anti-american propoganda piece.

[Probert]

The book "The Last Citadel" might make Kursk a little more well known. It was real popular here in the states earlier this year. It even has female characters, the story of a father and son, a wounded Nazi Spainard in a Tiger and a whole lot of action.

SOmeone will option it.