New Scenario - Tankovyi Desant

[George MC]

Tankovyi Desant is a new scenario available here Blowtorch Scenarios

In December 1944, somewhere on the Eastern Front, a Soviet armoured advance guard encounters a German Aufklarungs unit screening its Division’s withdrawal.

Fictional scenario, but based on actions described in “Tank Rider” by Evgeni Bessonov and Vol 1 of “Sdkfz 250/1 Alt ‘GD’ Living History” by Richard Stone.

In this action both sides will be playing hide and seek. Works well as both H2H or versus AI. Note read the brief as there are some special considerations for this one.

This also comes complete with a command map allowing you ploy your victorious fight against the Bolshevik beast/Hitlerite Bandits!

Many thanks to Guido, Aragorn1963 and Rockinharry for playtesting and feedback.

Enjoy!

Cheers fur noo

George Mc

[Aragorn2002]

Excellent stuff! By the way, George, I bought Stone's book about the GD/250 and it is first class. What a way to relive history. Magnificent. Thanks again for your recommendation.

[spartan1]

Great job I just found this maps and I am going to download and start play now.

Thanks

[spartan1]

Great job I just found these maps and I am going to download and start play now.

Thanks

[Crinius]

What are the proper tactics for the Aufklärer? Do I advance with the 250 and disembark the Infantry and wait till they make contact? Or do I advance all the way with the embarked Infantry till contact. That scenario showed me that I know nothing about proper Cavalry and Recon tactics.

[George MC]

Originally posted by Crinius:

What are the proper tactics for the Aufklärer? Do I advance with the 250 and disembark the Infantry and wait till they make contact? Or do I advance all the way with the embarked Infantry till contact. That scenario showed me that I know nothing about proper Cavalry and Recon tactics.

Possible spoilers ahead...........

I guess there are several options here. This next section contains spoilers so don’t look if you don’t want…

The trick is to use your recce units as recce units. You have limited AT capability with your recce units, but their job is not to engage but to locate, ideally without being seen. Your intel gives some indication where the Soviets are coming from, but you do need to proceed with caution.

One option would be to screen possible approach avenues with your recon units, if need be fast move your 250s down covered avenues of approach (get down to lev 1 view here to figure that out). The idea is to erect a screen that should either get a visual or at least sound contact. The infantry de-bussed are best for this. They can then move forward, in cover closer. If contact is made you can then decide what next to do.

The recon units have some close range ambush capability so this might be an option. Mind if you engage the Soviets Borg spotting will mean one seen you, all have seen you therefore any sprung ambush had best be followed up with getting the hell out – this is where hightailing back to the 250s and bugging out is a good idea.

Once contact has been made you can then decide where to erect your blocking positions. Sitting tight here and waiting for the AI to come to you will lose you this – you need to get out there spot them, then assemble ambushes with your heavier AT assets (which are limited so use em well).

To summarise – infantry are stealthy and spot well; 250s are fast but no match for tanks or anything with HMGs. You have limited AT assets you need to find where the AI is attacking from then ambush, then bug out, before more appear on the scene. All you have to do is stop the AI from exciting so it’s all down to slowing it down, making it deploy for a fight (likewise if playing against humans).

I’m sure someone else will have their own more detailed take on this subject.

I’ll be off line for the next week so afraid I wont be able to post anything else till then.

Meanwhile thanks for playing the scenario, hope you enjoy it, best of luck and hope this helps.

Cheers fur noo

George Mc

[George MC]

Oh Crinius have you got the command map? If not go to the website below (Blowtorchscenarios.com) go to scenarios and find Tankovyi Desant then you can download the command map this should assist you in planning a strategy.

Cheers fur noo

George

[JasonC]

Ever going to make any scenarios slightly smaller than the Ukraine involving less than 10000 points? I appreciate the work and the interest in the question, I'm interested in it too. But I can't play it, it is too frickin big by an order of magnitude.

[Crinius]

Originally posted by George Mc:

One option would be to screen possible approach avenues with your recon units, if need be fast move your 250s down covered avenues of approach (get down to lev 1 view here to figure that out). The idea is to erect a screen that should either get a visual or at least sound contact. The infantry de-bussed are best for this. They can then move forward, in cover closer. If contact is made you can then decide what next to do.

The recon units have some close range ambush capability so this might be an option. Mind if you engage the Soviets Borg spotting will mean one seen you, all have seen you therefore any sprung ambush had best be followed up with getting the hell out – this is where hightailing back to the 250s and bugging out is a good idea.

Once contact has been made you can then decide where to erect your blocking positions. Sitting tight here and waiting for the AI to come to you will lose you this – you need to get out there spot them, then assemble ambushes with your heavier AT assets (which are limited so use em well).

To summarise – infantry are stealthy and spot well; 250s are fast but no match for tanks or anything with HMGs. You have limited AT assets you need to find where the AI is attacking from then ambush, then bug out, before more appear on the scene. All you have to do is stop the AI from exciting so it’s all down to slowing it down, making it deploy for a fight (likewise if playing against humans).

I’m sure someone else will have their own more detailed take on this subject.

I’ll be off line for the next week so afraid I wont be able to post anything else till then.

Meanwhile thanks for playing the scenario, hope you enjoy it, best of luck and hope this helps.

Cheers fur noo

George Mc [/QB]

Thx George Mc. That was exactly what I was planning. I move my Infantry forward, stealthy. Then I plan to ambush and maybe knock some AFV out with my fausts. Then retreat and move the Panzerjäger forward to the main threat. So I guess

my tactics were not that far off. This is a great scenario. Looking forward to the BlowingTorch missions.

[Shmavis]

Originally posted by JasonC:

Ever going to make any scenarios slightly smaller than the Ukraine involving less than 10000 points? I appreciate the work and the interest in the question, I'm interested in it too. But I can't play it, it is too frickin big by an order of magnitude.

Don't bite the hand that feeds you, or, in this case, hosts your training scenarios. I can say that George is working on something smaller, though.

[Aragorn2002]

Originally posted by JasonC:

Ever going to make any scenarios slightly smaller than the Ukraine involving less than 10000 points? I appreciate the work and the interest in the question, I'm interested in it too. But I can't play it, it is too frickin big by an order of magnitude.

What a pain in the ass you are. What else did you ever do than produce some overpraised, overestimated and above all BORING 'training scenarios'? Make your own 1000 points scenarios if you feel like it and let George go on with his excellent work. I've been watching your posts for quite some time now, C, and it's high time you stop your megalomaniac comments. It's disgusting.

[ March 26, 2006, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: Aragorn2002 ]

[JasonC]

I've made a number of scenarios, some currently being playtested, some still in development. I have no doubt George is a better scenario designer than I am, and his maps are beautiful. I just don't play giant scenarios, and I doubt I am the only one. If he is also working on smaller ones, great I will look forward to them and I'll play them. Why you see anything arrogant in that is a mystery.

[Thin Red Line]

George Mc scenarios are brilliant !

I will play this one for sure.

[Mad Russian]

Originally posted by JasonC:

I've made a number of scenarios, some currently being playtested, some still in development. I have no doubt George is a better scenario designer than I am, and his maps are beautiful. I just don't play giant scenarios, and I doubt I am the only one. If he is also working on smaller ones, great I will look forward to them and I'll play them. Why you see anything arrogant in that is a mystery.

Ah Jason, the shoe is now on the other foot. Somebody questioned your favorite type of scenario.

You may now see that everybody has different tastes. Some gamers like BIG scenarios, Medium scenarios, small scenarios, tiny scenarios, historically based scenarios, fictional scenarios, with long breifings and short briefings, and, well you get the picture...

Alot of scenario designers have followings for the style of scenarios that they make. Not everybody likes the same style scenarios you do. Even though that didn't seem to get through to you in the other thread, it may have here.

To a large extent George's work is too big for my computer to handle and I'm not a really big fan of Larger scenarios/operations anyway. BUT if you are then George Mc is one of the very best!

Just MHO, mind you.

[Mad Russian]

Originally posted by JasonC:

I've made a number of scenarios, some currently being playtested, some still in development.

Will we be seeing some of these over at The Proving Grounds for playtesting?

I thought your training scenarios were very well done.

Aragorn2002...for those that needed the practice I'm sure they weren't boring. For those more advanced in the game I can see where they may well have been.

[JasonC]

PC - since everybody and his brother seems to want to make this something about me, for unfathomable reasons, I will explain the background to the comment.

There was a previous discussion of the relative merits of tanks with riders and the conventional APC infantry of the German armored panzergrenadier variety, in another thread. We discussed the historical uses of armored Pz Gdrs, which George is highlighting in his recent series of scenarios - which is great. I also advanced the thesis that tank riders can do the same job with more combat power, using full tanks rather than APCs and saving the expense of the APCs. That yes it can bang up the infantry more, but the whole possesses greater combat power than an equivalent (CM priced, naturally) investment in 'tracks and trimmings.

This sort of scenario is a perfect test of that question. I also understand why he picked a large scale - his thesis is that the 'tracks show their use in recon-like situations and through more robust repositioning of the infantry from one fight to another. Whereas riders may tend to be dropped at their first engagement, and remain there - so if the fight does not remain localised, their weaknesses might be more apparent. He knows 'tracks can't fight tanks. But if the better rider protection can translate into superior battlefield intel, then they might allow one's own tanks to engage enemy ones on more favorable terms.

I'd love to test that idea, and specifically to try to show just how much the Russian system can do with that kind of problem. I still think it entirely superior to wasting resources on APCs. I acknowledge that very small tests - where the Russian way unambiguously does better, outright and completely - do not settle the question. But this one is just too large for me to handle.

As for others commenting on my scenarios, they are perfectly welcome, and nobody has to like any of them. Such feedback noticed a weird effect of side ownership on AIs, raised doability questions about 110, found spelling errors (lol), helped me patch over-exposed reinforcement zones, etc. Do I want everyone to like my scenarios? Couldn't care less, entirely up to them.

As for more for the Proving Grounds, as I finish the linked scenario packs I am working on, sure. Don't know the whole system there, but I'm perfectly willing to try it out.

[crab]

Jason, I think you should do a scenario pack covering the fighting of Uranus. I don't know if this is what you are already planning but think it would be a great idea to have some historical scenario's covering that operation.

I love George's scenario's I love the fact that they are huge. Plus throwing my two cents into what you were discussing; I think the way he has it setup for the Germans with APC's is ideal for them. For instance I am currently playing (and thoroughly enjoying) Piper's race for Belgrad.

Spolier

My tanks smashed through the Russian road block with the aid of the "air strike" and continued on down the road to look for other tanks, guns or any other hard target. All the while two companies of infantry along with the cannon platoon and the two companies APC's cleared the little village of Russian infantry.

Well just as my tanks finnished clearing all the visible enemy tanks and guns in the town down the road my infantry finnished mopping up the Russian infantry in the first village. Then my inf embarked into their APC's and started blazing down the road to fall in right behind their tanks escort.

I couldn't have done this if I had to hold my tanks up waiting for the inf to complete their task.

[Aragorn2002]

What George MC is trying to achieve, among other things, with the Blowtorch-series (and his other scenarios) is to bring history alive as accurately as possible. And that's precisely what he has done. And the fact is that the Germans did use SPW's and they need space to make the best use of them. So you need large, even huge maps. That is the merit of his work. Criticizing other people's work is useful when there is something wrong with it, and useless, even harmful, when the work is good, but not to your taste. We all have other preferences towards scale, choice of units, tactical situation and so on. So what? Respect each other choice and stop discouraging people from sharing their work with us, by tactless remarks and insults. And yes, I'm also refering to another thread in the recent past in which some people who did their best to give us the products of their time and efforts were burnt to the ground. It's just not done.

[JasonC]

Find a tactless comment or insult in this thread. You are making it up. Get over it.

On the idea of scenarios depicting Uranus, that is one of them. I've made the first for that, the initial breakthrough. But the general idea of the series is to be played as semi campaigns, tracking one force through a sequence of its engagements.

The one farthest along is the north side of Kursk, German attack. I've also done one on the first day of 1SS in the south, again Kursk. None of them are huge (lol).

[Mad Russian]

Originally posted by JasonC:

PC - since everybody and his brother seems to want to make this something about me, for unfathomable reasons...

Find a tactless comment or insult in this thread. You are making it up. Get over it.

Jason People have long memories. You have almost made a career out of cutting people off at the knees. Telling them their work is trash, that they should go off in a corner and die if they don't agree with you, etc...

These guys aren't forgetting it. You've told me some of the same things. I believe you once even called me a troll. How nice.

Now you don't know why people take shots at you?

Try toning down the rhetoric and you might find people a bit less combative to your comments and your opinions.

[Mad Russian]

Originally posted by JasonC:

As for more for the Proving Grounds, as I finish the linked scenario packs I am working on, sure. Don't know the whole system there, but I'm perfectly willing to try it out.

The Proving Grounds is a website that is involved in everything to do with playtesting. From historical research, map making, playbalancing, OOB construction, briefings, etc.

In short, everything to do with a finished scenario that has been playtested by some of the best gamers in the CM community. If you are looking to see where the warts are TPG will show you. Even better than that they will direct you on how to remove them and make the scenario a well polished finished product.

Well worth your time to post there.

[JasonC]

It amuses me, and reflects on them. It doesn't bother me in the least. The mystery in this thread is why you or anyone else thinks I was in any way being critical of George. I want to play his scenarios, I play smaller scenarios, hence I put in a request for some smaller scenarios by him. Perfectly straightforward transaction, no egos involved - except apparently on the part of some bystanders without lives.

[Mad Russian]

ROFL!!! Jason it's not about this thread. It's about the one where you ranted and raved that people should only make scenarios that you like and that the rest of them are trash. That we are all idiots, except of course, for you.

That what this is all about. It is also why you are clueless about what this is all about.

ROFLTMSH!!!! You are priceless!!!

[ March 27, 2006, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: Panther Commander ]

[Mad Russian]

Originally posted by JasonC:

The mystery in this thread is why you or anyone else thinks I was in any way being critical of George. I want to play his scenarios, I play smaller scenarios, hence I put in a request for some smaller scenarios by him.

Good for you. That's the way it should be.

[Bigduke6]

I just took a look at the scenario, and the map along makes it worth playing. Absolutely gorgeous. George has outdone himself and in the very near future I will take a shot at crossing that beautiful terrain against a live opponent. Thanks ahead of time.