von Lucke Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 For the sharp eyed: Hint: One of these things is not like the others. Yet, strangely, it is listed as such. The 251/21 is listed as an Antiaircraft Vehicle, yet it steadfastly refuses to shoot at aircraft! I've mentioned this before, but just got around to checking it under 1.02 --- no change. Peacenik defeatists or bug, you be the judge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindan Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Where can I get this cool interface mod? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schoerner Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Lindan, you don't have it already? :eek: It's a must have. At the usual place: www.cmmods.com 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted February 17, 2003 Author Share Posted February 17, 2003 Originally posted by Lindan: Where can I get this cool interface mod? Oh, Lindan... Lindan! Don't distract me from my righteous crusade! (It's Pakfans' Camo interface --- I think it's up at cmmods.com) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigrii Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I noticed the same thing and tried a test where it's 1 AA SPW vs. 4 sturmoviks and a Pz4 entrapped so it can't fight (so they don't autosurrender). The SPW only shot at planes directly in front of it and at as low an angle as possible, right when they "appear". It canceled target once the plane passed a certain point and the angle was too great. :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bone_Vulture Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I wonder... Are the penetration abilities of the heavy fighter MG modeled? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Originally posted by Tigrii: The SPW only shot at planes directly in front of it and at as low an angle as possible, right when they "appear". It canceled target once the plane passed a certain point and the angle was too great. :confused: Would it be possible to put it onto a slope? Hmm, if I was not a lazy bum with intentions of eating something first, I could test it myself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I've noticed this as well. The 251/21 never targets aircraft. It works quite well against ground targets though. 251/17 will fire at aircraft but not very effectively as already noted by others. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Maybe BFC had an incorrect impressuion on the abilities of the SdKfz 251/21. From the usual pictures, you could think that it was only able to fire to the front with its hodge-podge triple 2cm mount. But indeed it was a 360°, fully elevatable mount capable of engaging air targets like, well, like an AA gun - which it was. If it was any help to them, I can offer them a couple good pictures showing the 251/21 with the mount rotated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted February 18, 2003 Author Share Posted February 18, 2003 Like this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Originally posted by von Lucke: Like this? yes, that is exactly one of those well-known 251/21 pictures where some could be lead to believe it was non-rotating, fixed to the front. But actually I don't think BFC fell for that. Nah. But still I would be interested to know what's up now with the AA capability (or lack thereof) of the 251/21 in CMBB. Not that it really mattered a lot, it is a rather obscure vehicle after all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 I really REALLY want to say I've seen a photo of that mount pointing more-or-less 90 degrees off line, which means it can rotate. But I'm talking from ancient memory and will never be able to find that reference. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted February 19, 2003 Author Share Posted February 19, 2003 Originally posted by MikeyD: I really REALLY want to say I've seen a photo of that mount pointing more-or-less 90 degrees off line, which means it can rotate. But I'm talking from ancient memory and will never be able to find that reference. Actually, it's in the ever-popular, oft-quoted Chamberlain & Doyle Encyclopedia...: Pg. 177, fig. 633, 634. Shows the mount swung 90deg. left and 90deg right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted March 9, 2003 Author Share Posted March 9, 2003 OK, since there's talk of a 1.03 patch, here's my suggestion of something that needs patching --- again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Rommel Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 Here are some pics of the rotated turret.. http://ww2photo.mimerswell.com/tanks/d/sdkfz/sd251/02630.jpg and a URL about the haltrack and turret http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Pit/3515/251/251-21.htm [ March 09, 2003, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: Erwin Rommel ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trommelfeuer Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 Sonderkraftfahrzeug 251/21 "Drilling" MG151S Maybe BFC had an incorrect impressuion on the abilities of the SdKfz 251/21. From the usual pictures, you could think that it was only able to fire to the front with its hodge-podge triple 2cm mount. But indeed it was a 360°, fully elevatable mount capable of engaging air targets like, well, like an AA gun - which it was. Well, maybe these pics shows the abilities of the Sdkfz 251/21 a little more "clearly" ? Edit: Lol, seems to be I was too late... What I'd really like to see / have in CMBB is a Sdkfz 251/1 "Stuka zu Fuss" / "Heulende Kuh" http://wilk.wpk.p.lodz.pl/~whatfor/panzer6/krowa222.jpg http://wilk.wpk.p.lodz.pl/~whatfor/panzer7/wur.jpg http://wilk.wpk.p.lodz.pl/~whatfor/panzer4/sd251x1a.jpg "Vehicle-carried schwere Wurfrahmen 40 - 280/300mm gained a nickname "Stuka Zu Fuss" due to their qualities similar to that of aerial bombing - high explosive power coupled with mobility of deployment. Because of the very limited accuracy of the weapon the system was mostly used for area targets. Sadly, many cities on the eastern front suffered from the destructive power of these missiles." "There were more Stuka Zu Fuss vehicles than the Sd.Kfz 251 with which the term is usually associated - for example the ex-French Chenillette Renault UE" http://www.internetmodeler.com/2002/august/first-looks/MIrage_Ue-box.jpg I've seen some pics of the "schwerer Wufrahmen 40/41" mounted on a Panzerkamwagen 38(t), but I cannot find them... Edit: O.K. found a pic, but it's only a model...anyone got a real photo of this one? With friendly greetings, Trommelfeuer [ March 10, 2003, 06:13 AM: Message edited by: Trommelfeuer ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pakfan Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Originally posted by Lindan: Where can I get this cool interface mod? Of course it's available at www.cmmods.com. Browse by designer, choose pakfan, I think it was called "Pakfan Interface Mod", and "Pakfan Interface Mod add-on" (you'll want both). Or "Pakfan Interf Mod CDV GERMAN" if you're using the german version. Unfortunately no CMMOS version (didn't have time to create one yet). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted March 11, 2003 Author Share Posted March 11, 2003 Trommelfeuer, those wurfrahmen vehicles were indirect-fire only --- despite what CC3 might have you believe. They are in CMBB, under artillery: "Rocket Spotter 300mm". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trommelfeuer Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Yap, I know of these "Rocket Spotter 300mm", never used 'em in CMBB so far...and I never thought they were used for direct fire... ...Hummel / Brummbär / Sturmtiger for example are also artillery units on the CMBB field and not somewhere behind the CMBB lines...so a "Stuka zu Fuss" on the map to provide your troops with devastating fire support might be possible...if someone could please tell me, what the "minimum fire range" for the "Stuka zu Fuss" was... I think the CMBB 300mm spotter spots the target for the stationary "28cm / 32cm Wurfkörper" on "schwerer Wurfrahmen 40(wood frame)/41(steel frame)" or the stationary "28/32-cm-Nebel-Werfer 41" and not for the mobile Sdkfz "Stuka zu Fuss". (I might be wrong, please feel free to correct me!) schweres Wurfgerät 41 (steel frame) 28/32-cm-Nebel-Werfer 41 Source: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waffen/Bilderseiten/raketenwerfer-R.htm#NhW42 With friendly greetings, Trommelfeuer [ March 11, 2003, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: Trommelfeuer ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 We'll look into it. Probably an easy fix. Steve P.S. yes... we know darned well that the 251/21 was supposed to act in an AA role as well as AG 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Trommelfeuer , Yap, I know of these "Rocket Spotter 300mm", never used 'em in CMBB so far...and I never thought they were used for direct fire... Rocket artillery, in general, was designed for indirect area fire only. Therefore, spotters is the correct method for their use. There were some specialized uses of it, for example 251 halftracks mounting the sWuR 40. However, a while ago we had a long and detailed discussion about this weapon and how it was actually used in combat. We determined that it was rarely used in direct fire method for obvious reasons (i.e. fire one round, everybody knows where you are). We decided not to include the 251 mounted rockets beacuse they really have no place in a CM type battle. And just a reminder folks... we are not adding anything new to the game at this point. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trommelfeuer Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Thank you very much for your detailed & satisfying answer Steve! I know that you don't plan to add any new units to CMBB, perhaps there is a chance of seeing a "Stuka zu Fuss" in CM III ? When I choose the 300m rocket artillery spotter in the editor, i don't know what kind of rocket artillery unit he is spotting for. Weapon: 300mm distant artillery, 36 barrels, explosion: 708...that's in the unit-information window, but I don't know what kind of "distant artillery" is shooting for me... (I own the german CDV-CMBB version...) ..so is it the "28/32-cm-schweres Wurfgerät 40/41" or is it the "28/32-cm-Nebel-Werfer 41" or 300mm Nebelwerfer 42? With friendly greetings, Trommelfeuer [ March 11, 2003, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: Trommelfeuer ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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