Soldier languages

[Monwar]

I am very interested in knowing all the soldier languages. I mean when the Russians say 'Mashih, mashih', what do they mean(mercy, mercy?). Any links would be appreciated to.

[M1A1TC]

This is russian slang for "Lets go!"

[Kaiser Soze 71]

Search, Monwar, Search

German:

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=000343#000000

Russia:

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=000594#000000

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=002577#000000

[Monwar]

Thank you very much Kaiser!

[MrSpkr]

What would be even better is if BFC would have their voice actors record in both English and the given language (Russian/Romanian/German/etc) and allow us to choose which of the two we want to hear. It would be more immersive for me to understand what my men were saying that to hear gibberish. Perhaps that is why CMBB, despite all it's improvements over CMBO, hasn't been significantly more enjoyable. My German is too rusty and I understand almost NO Russian.

Steve

[Goose]

Originally posted by MrSpkr:

What would be even better is if BFC would have their voice actors record in both English and the given language (Russian/Romanian/German/etc) and allow us to choose which of the two we want to hear.

Or, as I think somebody suggested in another thread, subtitles that can be toggled on/off. I would prefer this, but then I'm used to movies being subtitled (I'm danish). Other nationalities might prefer voiceovers.

[Esper]

Subtitles would be nice.. It's not like you would miss anything since you can watch the turn over and over.

[stikkypixie]

Yes I agree subtitles would be the best compromise. I hope the developers get to read this or that some very smart computerwizard could cook up a program that would do subtitles for cmbb, although this is not likely .

[Kaiser Soze 71]

I kinda disagree.

Subtitles should not be in Extreme Fog of War.

If you don't understand what the enemy are yelling, then it's your problem. Like in real fight.

It gives a small advantage to know the situation of the enemy team.

[c3k]

Kaiser,

Nice point. But what if I don't understand what _my_ men are yelling?

The point isn't to see/read what the other guys are saying, it's to comprehend your own men. (If you toggle off the EFOW option, sure, then add in the translations for the enemy.)

Ken

[Sivodsi]

I am sure you could find at least one person among your troops who would understand what the enemy were saying. That person would be your interpreter, if you really wanted to know.

Thus, I think it would be quite acceptable to have subtitles that can be toggled as you see fit.

As it happens I don't really think you would change your battle plan based on what you understood from the enemy troops, but please correct me if I am wrong!

[MrSpkr]

Interesting comments on my suggestion.

I think you ought to be able to toggle the languages for each side individually (so as to preserve FOW for those worried about realism).

I think the ability to toggle the enemy sayings should be available, however, for those players more interested in fun and enjoyment than total immersion.

Steve

[Madmatt]

Subtitles won't work because many units are talking at the same time. There would be no easy way to know what units speech to display ,especially since the camera is likely to be moving all over the map changing views and padlocked units while the player reviews the action movie.

We have said this before, using English voices for the other nations is a cop out and appeals only to the English speaking audience of the game.

Calling another nations language "gibberish" is more than a little insulting as well I might add.

If you want to understand what the enemy is saying, I suggest picking up a good foreign language software package and learning for yourself.

Knowing what the units are saying (yours and the enemies) can be a very important tool to optimize your situational awareness.

Using English for German or Russian voices would be like using a Sherman texture for a German Tiger tank in my opinion.

Madmatt

[stikkypixie]

I don't agree with you here madmatt, you could limit the game so that it only displays subtitles for the nearest troops, not for every unit on the map. Something like the sounds you hear, the one nearest to you make the most noise. Besides in movies people also talk trough each other and the subtitles seem to be fine.

And although i would like to learn russian, german, hungarian, romanian, finnish i don't think it quite feasible...

[MrSpkr]

Originally posted by Madmatt:

We have said this before, using English voices for the other nations is a cop out and appeals only to the English speaking audience of the game.

Sorry, I thought the larger portion of your audience spoke or understood some English (at least, that is my impression from being on the forum).

Calling another nations language "gibberish" is more than a little insulting as well I might add.

Matt, perhaps I did not make the remark in the proper context. The languages are not, of course, "gibberish"; however, they SOUND like that to me because I do not speak Russian, Finnish, Hungarian, Polish, Romanian or Italian, and my German is very rusty. I certainly did not intend to be condescending or arrogant in my remarks, and did not intend to offend anyone.

If you want to understand what the enemy is saying, I suggest picking up a good foreign language software package and learning for yourself.

Sigh. Matt, that is totally unrealistic to expect of your customers. Expecting customers to have to take a crash course in Russian, Hungarian, Italian, etc., in order to get the most out of playing the game is, quite bluntly, silly. It is far easier for BFC to accommodate customers by having the voice actors offer an English translation than for the individual customer to have to learn the languages and dozens of different sayings, some sounding over others, and be able to instinctively understand what is meant as the playback unwinds.

Knowing what the units are saying (yours and the enemies) can be a very important tool to optimize your situational awareness.

Exactly -- which is why players who are taknig the part, for example, of a Soviet company/battalion commander should be able to toggle the Russian sayings into English (which is, it would seem to me, the logical choice as the lingua franca of BFC's customers). By an outright refusal to even consider offering this service, you are condemning many players (who do not have the language skills nor the time to become intimately familiar with each of the nationalities' various exclamations) to a less than optimal experience. In my mind, in other words, this is not a "realism" issue, but a "Customer service" issue.

Please understand, I think CMBB is a great game (as was CMBO). Frankly, I have put more time on the two CM games than I have on all my other computer games combined (and I have been computer gaming for over a decade). I do think, however, that offering this option would not be a "cop out" or impact realism, but would instead allow the player to immerse themselves in the role of commander that much more fully.

In this manner, offering that option is, IMHO, similar to allowing players to turn the colored bases on or off to suit their needs. Some folks would say that the colored bases are very necessary to keep track of units and that when combined with extreme overhead views, offer the player a very convenient way to keep track of the general ebb and flow of the battle. Others would say the bases are ugly, unnecessary, and that people shouldn't use them because it detracts from the realism of the game (i.e., if you don't have the bases on and run out in front of an enemy unit you overlooked, well, that is war).

Using English for German or Russian voices would be like using a Sherman texture for a German Tiger tank in my opinion.

I understand your position -- indeed, for a hardcore grognard, that is expected. However, I think a certain amount of realism in the expectations you have of your customer base is important here. While one might like to learn several different languages, most folks do not have the time to so do.

I do agree with your point about subtitles. I think that would get too messy too quickly. However, I would hope BFC would at least consider offering customers English translations of the relevant .wav files (even if only as a mod) made by the original Russian/German/Hungarian/etc. voice actors. Frankly, I do not think that the cost would be significantly more than what you already pay the voice actors, as the script would be the same, the voice actor would be the same, and the only real question is space on the CD (or, in the future, DVD). Space issues could be overcome by hosting it at CMHQ or one of the other MOD sites.

Steve

[ October 08, 2003, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: MrSpkr ]

[Goose]

Frankly, I don't see the problem with subtitles: Already you can only see unit info for one unit at a time, so why not show subtitles for just the selected unit (the one whose info is currently shown)? The subtitles could be put in the unit info pane, by the unit, or at the top of the screen, I don't care. The point is that you would get translations for your currently selected unit only, so no mess

Sure, to undestand everything everybody on the battlefield is saying would involve a lot of tedious replaying and moving around. But this is no different from what people will have to do to closely monitor any other unit characteristic. So people would typically monitor the few units that appear to be saying something interesting, I think.

[Dschugaschwili]

Originally posted by c3k:

But what if I don't understand what _my_ men are yelling?

Who cares? I just played a game of CMBB as the Russians. And I didn't really have a problem with not being able to understand what my men were saying. I mean, I don't have to understand them to tell that they're panicking (which they were doing a lot). Same for just about everything else that can be seen in the status messages for my units.

On the other hand, understanding the enemy troops when they say "Ich brauche mehr Muni!" can be quite useful.

Dschugaschwili

[GJK]

Perhaps an unpopular view, but to me the voices are just "ear candy". Each "voice" is one of 20 or 30 pre-generated sound files that play somewhat based on the situation but have no effect on the outcome or performance of the troops. Mix up all the wav files and the troops would still do the same actions, they'd just be saying something else.

As with explosions, muzzle and grenade blasts, I want realistic sounds that blend into a cornucopia of "heat of the battle" sounds.

I agree with Matt, leave it the way it is, the appropriate language for the nationality of the soldiers involved. Subtitles would only add to the clutter of the screen. Besides, it would be easy enough to mod as lists of the english translations have been posted.

[MrSpkr]

Originally posted by GJK:

Perhaps an unpopular view, but to me the voices are just "ear candy". Each "voice" is one of 20 or 30 pre-generated sound files that play somewhat based on the situation but have no effect on the outcome or performance of the troops. Mix up all the wav files and the troops would still do the same actions, they'd just be saying something else.

As with explosions, muzzle and grenade blasts, I want realistic sounds that blend into a cornucopia of "heat of the battle" sounds.

I agree with Matt, leave it the way it is, the appropriate language for the nationality of the soldiers involved. Subtitles would only add to the clutter of the screen. Besides, it would be easy enough to mod as lists of the english translations have been posted.

I agree with the subtitles. Let's just put that issue to rest. However, I would disagree with using generic MOD files (I mean, I could sit and translate each saying into a .wav file myself, but I am hardly a voice actor). I think it would add something for the same person who yells, say, "Kamerade!" in Russian to yell, umm, "Comrade!" in accented English.

I realize that might be a humorous example, but it is about the only Russian translation I know by heart.

Again, if there is not room on the CD for it, perhaps make it as a bonus CD (along with some additional visual MOD files) for an extra price, or as part of a special edition or something.

Steve

[Louie the Toad]

If you are in command of XXXXX then in the game to simulate reality you should intuitively know the XXXXX language. So XXXXX language translation should be supplied to you.

You don't necessarily know the enemy's language. You could get that from experience or a dictionary.

As far as using the enemy's language to pick up intelligence about him, yes that should happen. It helps to know if a voice from the other side yells the equivalent of "lets get out of here".

But then of course you would only know what the enemy was saying by combat experience or the dictionary.

What do you suppose Austrailian will sound like?

---Toad

[MrSpkr]

Yes. You know, thinking about it, if it is an unfair advantage for us to be able to hear and understand the enemy commands, maybe Americans and Brits should avoid ever taking the German or Italian side against the Brits/Canucks/Amis/New Zealanders/Indians/South Africans/etc. in CMAK?

Steve

[JonS]

Subtitles won't work. What we need are speech bubbles!

[ October 09, 2003, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: JonS ]

[Michael Dorosh]

There IS such a thing as immersion - wanna know what those voice files mean? Play CM more.

[MrSpkr]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

There IS such a thing as immersion - wanna know what those voice files mean? Play CM more.

Michael, I understand that some people may think it more immersive to be plopped down in the middle of the troops they are commanding and not have much of a clue what the men are yelling. I personally do not. I also understand that, if one desires, one could make an effort to learn what the soldiers are saying. However, as CMBB alone had over 2,000 .wav files of soldier's saying stuff . . . let me repeat that . . . over 2,000 .wav files of soldiers saying stuff, I think it unrealistic to expect the average player to be able to memorize or understand even half of the sayings.

Sure, one could pull up a list of translations for the languages. I did that when I first got CMBB a year ago. You know what -- it was not very useful as the outher sounds of battle and the fact more than one group of soldiers talking at once made it very difficult to understand what was being said. Even if I DID understand the sounds, I had to match them up phonetically with the list in order to understand what the heck my guy was saying. After a few games, that became too cumbersome and I eventually abandoned it. Now, I don't even use the sounds half the time, and I certainly don't get that little rush I got hearing men shouting in English in CMBO.

In addition, although I found translation lists for the Russian phrases, I never came across any for the Germans, Finns, Poles, Hungarians, Italians or Romanians. In CMAK, we will have Americans and Brits (maybe separate South Africans, New Zealanders, Canadians, and/or Australians), but also Germans, Italians, Greeks, possibly Spanish-speakers, French, possibly Arabic speakers, possibly even Portuguese speakers. That is a lot to expect your average player to memorize.

I can understand it if it is too dificult to code the toggle into the game, but it certainly would not take much effort on BFC's part to have the voice actors say their lines in both English and whatever alternate language they are using. Then, the sounds could be packed as MODS by nationality. I am quite sure that if such packs were available, Gordon Molek would include them in his fine product.

Why not MOD them myself, you might ask? Several reasons, actually. First, as I indicated previously, for several of the languages, I do not have a translation list. Second, I think it would be rather boring to hear my own voice say over 2,000 difierent things for the game (and I couldn't tell which side said what). Even if I got a few friends over to help, I don't have access to the sound studio BFC used nor, again, would it be quite the same effect as having accented English translating the lines.

I truly do not understand your or Matt's reaction. It is not as though my ultimate suggestion (a MOD pack provided with the game or for free download at CMHQ) is some radical, unthinkable change to the product that is totally ahistorical. Okay, strictly speaking, if my German units spoke English, that would be ahistorical; but, for the most part, so would be a tactical commander on the battlefield who has no way of understanding what his men are saying.

Respectfully,

Steve

[Michael Dorosh]

I don't mean THAT kind of Immersion.

If you want kids to learn to speak French, you put them in French Immersion classes. As the langauage is used more, they naturally learn it.

It's like Guy Sajer - one of the criticisms of THE FORGOTTEN SOLDIER was that he kept complaining about his poor German for 3 years. One critic of his says "immersion in the German Army would have solved that problem in short order."

That's what I mean by immersion, not the "immersion factor" of playing with guys you don't understand, but the fact that playing with those voices will eventually get you to understand what they are saying!