Are there some kind of "newbie scenarios"??

[Nightkin]

Hello!

I play and play but I still have no chance in beating the AI. I feel like not understanding the mechanics of this game, like spotting enemy units, using the right cover and choosing the right movement.

So can anyone tell me if there some kind of newbie scenarios for CMBB, which lead me from the basics to advanced skill level?

Right now I’am happy like a child on christmas, when I destroy an enemy unit

Thank you for your help.

[Bert Hamoen]

Look here: http://www.blowtorchscenarios.com/

[Corvidae]

Nightkin,

Welcome to the world of CM,

There are actualy quite a few scenarios you could try. But maybe a few details about exactly what problems you have.

What force type do you use?

What battle type are you playing?

What units do you have?

What enemys are you facing?

How are you deploying your units?

Etc Etc.

The fact is that skill increases with practice. and on the road to becoming a skillfull commander you are going to have to learn by the old reliable method of falling on your face like the rest of us. Dont worry though, you will figure things out, and there are a lot of vetrans here to help you.

[MikeyD]

Some of the 'tutorial' scenarios out there have given me fits, and I'm an old CM hand! Basically, no scenario is any 'easier' to operate than any other (though many are much harder to WIN!). In all of them you've got to herd your men forward, target your artillery & mortars, and direct your tanks. I think the trick is simply to not mind losing the first several times up at bat. I'd look for 'small' games (fewer forces to manage) with complex maps. 3/4 of the battle is learning to use terrain to your advantage. Also, plan our moves as though it was the real world - playing the game like a game usually gets you killed!

[realest]

I'm still very new, but do very well vs the AI now. I can fairly well maul them when i take my time and i'm not swarmed with units on huge maps.

My advice, don't get in a hurry. It's not a race to the flags. If you feel pressure to get to the flag then take a deep breath and put that "gamey" issue to the side. Think in context of "controlling the area". I've found by not worrying with exact spots of flags i was fairing better faster.

I also keep replaying the same scenario over and over. It's given me an understanding of the units and their capabilities. Most of what i've done is infantry, tanks and other afvs just die. I do ok some of the time, but i've read where Jason C seems to have gotten clobbered too.

Don't treat this like a "Red Alert" tank rush (i used to rule there! LOL) you will only die in a fast grusome manner. Also, try and put aside the dice and counter methods you may have learned and relied on in the past. They don't function here i believe because you don't have the fire control cordination like in those games.

Try this scenario "A meeting not well met II" it's the 4th one down on my scenario list. Play germans and don't go rushing around. Get your tanks to the top area of the hill above the crossroads. Just GO SLOW, they will come to you. I played this about 2 times till i was kicking the crap out of the AI, you may enjoy this one, i thought it was alot of fun. They outnumber you etc, but good placement will make this a cakewalk. Use the LOS tool.

From one newby to another..... LOL

[Corvidae]

Hullo Nightkin,

You might also try "A warm place to sleep" Its on the disk,, Its a balanced ME,

And its a great teaching tool, I played it at least 10 times before I finaly beat it.

[761st Black Panther]

one thing i found useful is to create a relativley tiny map, nothing complex just a few trees,houses, bushes, gentle hills, and save this map under your quick battle maps. then just play this scenario over and over experimenting with differnet types of units different yrs differnt tactics etc. most new players get over whelmed if thers to many units on the map so just start off with small forces, like one piece of armor, a few vehicles and one company. o and whatever you do, treat motars like gold, use can use them like off map arty, just make sure that you comp or platoon hq has a los on the target and within command range of mortar teams hiding somewhere out of enemy sights.

[rickr]

Originally posted by Nightkin:

Hello!

I play and play but I still have no chance in beating the AI. I feel like not understanding the mechanics of this game, like spotting enemy units, using the right cover and choosing the right movement.

So can anyone tell me if there some kind of newbie scenarios for CMBB, which lead me from the basics to advanced skill level?

Right now I’am happy like a child on christmas, when I destroy an enemy unit

Thank you for your help.

JasonC put together a set of tutorial scenarios to show how to use Russain forces in the game. Some of them are hard to win, but play through them, then read the discussions on the forum about them and play again. I played a few of them many times before being able to do what was described. I think they helped me understand some things, though they haven't improved my armor game at all, they have helped with my infantry game.

Rick

[Nightkin]

Hello!

Thank you for your answers!

Its so frustrating!

I have no chance, replaying the sma escenario over and over. I german its called Jaegermeister. Dunno how its called in english. Date is 15.07.44.

I play russians, like told in the tutorial in the manual. But the tactics written in the manual are 100% useless.

I try to take all the positions, like written in the manual, but no way. The forrest position on the right flank, should be good for having a scout position in the villag à I never spotted any enemy from there.

I shall take a “hull down” position behind the hill just in front of my starting position à all my IS-2 (!!!!!) end up in flames, beeing shoot by AT guns hidden somewhere. Even if I spott on, and give a tank the order to attack, the AT gun fires 2-3 shells, bevore the tank even moves its turret. The whole “hull down” command seems useless to me. My tanks stand behind a hill, I tell them to look for a “hull down” position relative to a posiotion in the village. What do they do? Nothing. In best case they drive 1-3 meters. But nothin like “its just the turret that looks over the hill”.

If I try it manually à the mentioned AT guns, or even Tanks on hills far behind the villag kill me instantly, even if there is just a part of the turret showing up behind the hill…

Oh, it seems german units are even able to have a line of sight through bushes and trees. Just look at the pictures I made. The Panther spotted and shot me through bushes. Just like the AT gun

These four assault guns, standing in a row are DEAD. I tried to birng them in a “hull down” position.

Another thing I don’t understand: I told two IS-2 to move about 5 meters foreward. What do they do? They drive the 5 meters and immediately they drive back to their starting postions?!?!

I play pc games for about 14 years now. But there was never a game making me so frustrated

on the frist two pictures you can see the AT gun killing tank THROUGH a bush. The tank had also a “hull down” position (at least this was my impression)

The Panther kills me through bushes, over a large distance. How could he spot me?

Four assault tanks, killed with no chance, alltough “hull down”…

[realest]

Night, forget about tank battles for a bit. Look for infantry matches with small armor engagements. This will likely help you far more.

Play "A battle of minors", play the germans. you will be on the defense. You will have tanks come into the game later on. I lose the left side of the map quite a bit. However, i usually finish with a draw or better.

This one and the other one are the 2 i played the most to learn what was going on with a few things.

[Nightkin]

Hello realest,

Ok, I will try "A battle of minors".

And may god be with you, if I loose again!

[realest]

LOL, you may lose again. Just take your time. Also, do you turn off the trees? I do to see the results. You can rewatch it with the trees and stuff for eye candy. Right now, i find myself leaning around looking at the monitor. LOL

Newb helping newb. LOL

If you get mauled, i'll start it and show you my opening maybe email you the save file if i can find it so you can see what i did. I don't know, just a plan.

[Nightkin]

Here I am again

This time my performance was better. Managed even to enter the village I found out that it takes some time to spott entrenched units and AT guns. I took some rounds and when I knew their postions it was qiet easy to take them out.

But I still have a few questions. Please look at the picture. How is the Panther tank able to take out my IS-2 through all those bushes and the forrest? Bushes and forest do block LOS, so how could he aim me?

Another question: If there is an enemy tank standing behind a house or something, and I know he is there, because one of my units see him. On the other side of the house there is one of my tanks. How can I order my tank to drive arround the corner and aim the enemy tank immediatly? In my case, the tank drives around the corner, and after a few seconds he decides to drive back, allthough he as visual contact.

Is it normal, that a Tiger tank is able to fire three shots in the same time my IS-2 needs to fire one shot and reload?

Is it somehow possible to tell my tanks a target to attack for the shoot & retreat move, or do they have to look for a target on their own?

Thank you for your help!

[John Kettler]

Nightkin,

Tiger tank 88 ammo is one piece, hence fast and easier to load, relatively speaking. Your IS-2s, by contrast, have much heavier and bulkier separate loading 128mm ammunition in which the shell or shot goes in first and is rammed home, after which comes the powder case. Only then can the breech be closed. The 88 closes automatically via mechanical trip on the breech block once loaded by a vigorous push and ejects the casing automatically once fired. That's why the Tiger tank has an ROF advantage. If your IS-2s have lower quality (say, Regular vs. Crack Or Elite) and/or worse commander mods than the Tigers you're facing, these also will negatively impact all aspects of combat performance.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Bert Hamoen]

Nightkin,

You may see bushes on your screen, but how the game translates that to blocked LOS is something else altogether. Sometimes tanks will even have LOS through a building and sometimes there will be LOS "through" bushes. "Scattered trees" (vereinzelte baueme) wil break LOS if the patch is big (deep) enough. They will diminish LOS to a certain extent in any case. But it is quite possible, as you've found out, that the loss of LOS isn't enough to block LOS.

[realest]

Glad you did better!

[Nightkin]

Hello!

@John

Thank, your explaination makes this much clearer!

@ Bert

I read about this before, bit its hard to remember this fact ingame. In any other game, if you see a bush, you can be sure that it is there I really have to get into this...

@ realest

Ask me how glad I was

I will go on practicing!

But I have to ask this question again: "If there is an enemy tank standing behind a house or something, and I know he is there, because one of my units see him. On the other side of the house there is one of my tanks. How can I order my tank to drive arround the corner and aim the enemy tank immediatly? In my case, the tank drives around the corner, and after a few seconds he decides to drive back, allthough he as visual contact."

This seems essential for me, is it not??

Greetings...

[Corvidae]

Nightkin,

Jaegermeister is a tough mission. Its the advanced tutorial, for advnced players.

It still gives me moments.

my trick against the AI is simple, edge towards the center. I move mostly across the vally to the forest on the left of the start area, and I use the arty spotters to pound the forest across from that area.

Once that forest is taken, I go around the southern flank.

Watch for AT guns on the far ridge.

*********************************************

If you create a covered arc for your tanks , you can control which tanks they engage,

[PFMM]

Some food for thought about Jagermeister as the Soviets.

You have smoke rounds for your artillery, lots of it. Use it.

Your AFV crews are inexperienced, with low rates of fire, worse sights and limited ammunition compared to the Germans. You will lose any extended duel.

A Panther or Tiger hit by a 122mm shell at under five hundred meteres is dead.

If you trade one for one in AFVs you win easily.

Your infantry can ride with the tanks. Bring some.

The village is a killing zone. Clear it last.

The German is playing for time. Don't let him. Force his hand.

And lastly, you have numbers, scare him with them.

[Nightkin]

Hello!

Thanks for the tips. Bringing me to some new questions

1.What is AFV?

2. Why does Artillery need so much time, about 12minutes to fire those 137?mm guns. This means I have to wait for about 12 turns?!

3. Why are my tanks retreating, if their 122mm cannon is deadly for a Panther? I had Su122 (os something like that) driving around a corner, spotting a panther, and retreating?! Why?

4. If a units spotts an enemy, is the enemy position now know to any of my units? So will a tank, advancing with infantry spotting a enemy, see the enemy too?

5. Grenade launcher have indirect fire. Why do grenade launcher teams have to have a line of sight, to attack a target?

6. What is the best tactic, to attack a hMG position? I had about 3-4 groups + officer about 20 meters infront of a hMG42. I ordered the units to attack, but they had no chance, running away, beeing paniced, or pinned down.

I know these are a lot of newbie questions, but I hope you will help me. This is really a though game. Hard to get into it...

Greetings

[JasonC]

Ah Jaegermeister. One word. Rune.

The man who made that scenario is, well, evil. See, he made a fight with all the neatest high powered toys, and then constructed it so the Russians can win only if they do the right thing. It is a "puzzle" scenario disguised as a slugging match. If you just slug it out the Germans will win every time.

You are also encountering a few less than defensible aspects of the game, which should not have been showcased in a tutorial scenario. You can't be expected to separate one from the other while still learning the ropes etc.

The German tanks have high ROF, the Russians low. That is overdone - the 122mm was slower but not as much so as the game depicts. What it means, though, is the German will get 2 shots to 1, and win, in straight ahead tank dueling.

Then Rune put that evil beautiful looking ridge on the Russian right front, looking like the high road into the German position. Well, everything they ever get with a serious gun will see that one spot. It is a kill sack, not a firing position. The only thing that should go there is some infantry to spot things. And not too much.

The main route into the village is to your left. You have to swing the bulk of your force left to the center line of the map, then turn right. A portion - a third, a half - should go even further and enter the village on a left to right diagonal, not the right to left one you start on.

The next big thing to understand is that the main power of the Russia force is the megadeath HE on all those A(rmored) F(ighting) V(ehicles) = AFVs - which is the English version of "Panzerkampfwagen" if that helps - armored = panzer, fighting = kampf, vehicle = wagen. Not their tank killing ability but their infantry killing ability.

The way to use that is to blow the heck out of any position that *might* have a German in it, before you give them a chance to fire. Use "area fire" at "empty" spots, but fire often. Blow apart every house leaving only rubble - each IS, ISU, or SU will destroy a house a minute.

Send the SMG infantry after the storm of HE. You can also fire smoke farther than the positions the infantry are trying to reach, when they move out. Once the infantry are in a position, bring up the AFVs level with them again. The sequence of movement is HE shell, infantryman, AFV. You are making a way in for the AFVs that way.

The enemy tanks are a lot easier to deal with a few at a time than all together. The left flank approach will create more occasions when only 1-2 of the enemy can see you, instead of all of them seeing you.

There are two move orders you want to use as the Russians in this case. "Fast" - to get from A to B, including firing positions you plan to stay at - and "Shoot and Scoot" - which is a short halt, firing order with two movement legs.

Two ways to use Shoot and Scoot. The one round shot way is - first waypoint with LOS to the enemy, second waypoint an exact reverse back out of sight. Over a ridge, out from behind a house, whatever. The idea is to fire the one round ready in the tube, and then get out of there, *reloading while out of sight*. That equalizes the rate of fire issue, done properly.

Second way is on the move - first waypoint half way through the move in a spot that can see the enemy, next waypoint farther ahead, still moving fast, but behind cover nearer the enemy. That is the way to advance, most of the time.

Do not use the "hunt" command. It tells a tank to engage only if it thinks it can win and can't lose, and in this scenario it will cause "tank cower". That is what happended when your tanks backed up 5m right after reaching sight of the enemy. They "cowered". The solution is simply to use "fast", not "hunt". "Fast" says "go here, damn the consequences, just fight!" They won't fire until they reach the end (or won't hit anything, anyway).

On the issue of coming around a house, if you have a turreted IS-2, you can set a vehicle covered arc and the turret will turn in the direction of the center of that arc. If you don't have a turret, you are going to be facing the direction you are moving - and rotation turns are very very slow in CM (too slow to be realistic frankly). The moral is, an assault gun without a turret needs to be lined up on its target *before* it makes the last bit of the move into sight. All turns out of sight.

On mortars ("grenade launchers" = granatwerfer), you can use them indirect. A headquarters unit (HQ) must "spot" for them. The HQ needs LOS of the target location, and the mortars needs to be under that HQ's command - which means a red command line from the mortar to the HQ. The HQ cannot be hiding. Then selection the mortar, target the location - the line will "stick" and say "area fire".

So e.g. the HQ goes at the front windows, with the mortar behind the house. Or the HQ is at the treeline with the mortar back in the woods. Or the HQ is over the crest, and the mortar is behind the crest.

Mortars are the best answer to towed guns, because the gun can't get away, it can't see the HQ in cover (not firing), and the mortar is safe and can fire until the gun is destroyed.

On artillery forward observors, the time varies with the caliber and command level. Corps and army guns have very long times, while battalion mortars will land in 2 minutes. But there is a separate way to use the guns with very long command times, called "prep fire" or "map fire".

Which is available to both sides in any battle except a meeting engagement. Since map fire is arranged beforehand and a meeting engagement is supposed to be a surprise to both sides, there is no map fire allowed in meeting engagements. For any other type of fight, the following applies.

The mechanics are - any fire mission ordered on the first turn on the game can arrive instantly, and will always be on target. But it cannot be adjusted and the entire ammunition supply will be fired at that one spot. You can pick a different time for the fire mission to arrive by pressing "Q" - each time delays the fire mission by 1 minute. So you can construct a whole "fire plan", these guns hit this location on the first turn, those hit this other location on turn 5, another set hit another on turn 12 - anything you like.

You just have to guess where the fire will be wanted, because you haven't really seen the enemy yet!

In Jaegermeister, if memory serves, the Russians have a 132mm forward observor. Those are rockets (nebelwerfer). Use them for map fire and aim right at the middle of the village. They will land all over the place - rockets are very inaccurate. 400m away from the point of aim, a few of them. The area within 60-100m will be plastered. I recommend firing those right at the start, or in the first 5 minutes, before your men get close enough to be hurt by a "short" rocket.

Check any forward observor by selecting him and hitting "enter". If it says he is a battalion or regiment level FO, you can use him for called fire with full time delay, after seeing the enemy. If you aren't Russian, "division" is OK too. Anything higher - Russian "division", anybody's "corps" or "army" - then use it for map fire, ordering the mission on turn 1.

"Why are my tanks retreating, if their 122mm cannon is deadly for a Panther?"

Tank cower. Arg. We hate it, as Russians. The solution is to avoid the "hunt" command. It can sometimes still happen, but on "fast" or "shoot and scoot" it is rare.

"If a units spots an enemy, is the enemy position now know to any of my units?"

Yes, but there can be a short delay. Up to 30 seconds. Buttoned-up vehicles have the longest delay "picking up" a new target. And if they are already targeting a different enemy unit they may not react.

"What is the best tactic, to attack a hMG position?"

Fire! Movement does not take ground, fire takes ground. Shoot at him until he is crawling away. Then you can move right on top of him, he is "broken". If you are within 30m, your men will throw grenades. Between the grenades and firing you should break him.

One unit can "advance" or "assault" to within 10m to create "close combat" - hand to hand. But only if he is already pinned, really. Otherwise he will shoot them as they advance. Don't send several, there is no point. The others can fire.

Main lesson - shoot first. If he isn't already "heads down", moving on top of him won't help.

I hope these help.

[Corvidae]

[PFMM]

AAAAARGHHHH!!!

No!No!NO!NO!

Corvidea, that strategy versus a human player will see you slapped silly.

Nightkin some pointers;

- AFV stands for armoured fighting vehicle.

- Plan your attack at start of the game, not during it.

- Use preplanned smoke barrages along the axis of attack or along potential fire lanes to shield you from fire.

- Stop moving under fire. Stop thinking you can rush a HMG position with infantry. Either leave the affected units where they are or withdraw them. Other nastier units should be covering their adavnce. Blast with them.

- In conjunction with above, advance in depth, defend in depth.

- Stop duelling with the German armour, put your armour in a single deep column. One element covers while the other covers. STOP HIDING. STAY OUT IN THE OPEN. KEEP MOVING. Get right up close to hime en mass and pound (ie less than five hundred meters, closer is better).

- Take the position on the other side of the valley and you have him. He can't move without coming under fire.

- It's move then fire, not move AND fire.

- This scenario has great tank terrain, use it.

[realest]

PFMM, nighkin is like me at the moment, lots of AI play, not so much human (i think). We are about on par trying to figure things out in this game. I think i'm faring a little better than him, i can raise he11 with infantry usually. Tanks and afv's.... well taps for them LOL.

I think i'll be starting another PBEM game somewhat soon. It is addictive. LOL

[JoMac]

Realest,

Hmmm, Dont worry you will have your hands full with our new PBEM game, lol.

Joe