Hannibal Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 I was in a book store this week and I saw a book about German Landing gear of world war 2 .It struck me that just about every posible topic on the german military of ww2 had been covered .Osprey must have about 40 books on german troops but cover the red army in one volume . There is a look more written about the German navy than the Jappanese navy even though the japanese navy was much larger .So what is it ?Did the germans keep beter records .Is there equipment more interesting .Is evil more interesting .What do you think is the reason for the extensive coverage of the German millitary in comparsion to the other combatants ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Money. German books sell more than those covering other nations. There is nothing more complicated than that. They make more money selling German-themed stuff. Doesn't matter if you are talking books, action figures, model kits, re-enactment kit - the Germans sell better. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 You can find out all you need to know about Soviet uniforms by watching movies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-E Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Originally posted by Hannibal: Is evil more interesting?Most definitely. When was the last time Madd Matt posted? (beyond announcements) And look at how many come back, just hoping to get a glimpse of him and/or his evil ways. It's similar to the phenomenon of people looking at a car wreck as they drive by. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grisha Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Hannibal, Have you read that book by Heinlein, Starship Trooper? Well, western historiography has pretty much depicted the Soviet-German War along those lines. The Germans are the starship troopers, and the Soviets are the bugs. That the Germans lost only gives it that special 'tragic' aura typical of the best of theater and film. Given that collective impress upon modern western civilization, who would you be more interested in? Exactly. One of the best spins of all time. Having said that, I must concede that the bugs-er, Soviets had done little to dispel that ungracious image, but that just may have been a ploy at retaining a maskirovka edge through bias in the event that another war with the West was to occur. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal Posted January 19, 2003 Author Share Posted January 19, 2003 Read Starship troopers a long time ago .I myself have always found Hannibal and Napolean more interesting than Wellington and Scipio . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxx Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 German Landing Gear! LOL! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Originally posted by Grisha: Hannibal, Have you read that book by Heinlein, Starship Trooper? Well, western historiography has pretty much depicted the Soviet-German War along those lines. The Germans are the starship troopers, and the Soviets are the bugs. That the Germans lost only gives it that special 'tragic' aura typical of the best of theater and film. Given that collective impress upon modern western civilization, who would you be more interested in? Exactly. One of the best spins of all time. Having said that, I must concede that the bugs-er, Soviets had done little to dispel that ungracious image, but that just may have been a ploy at retaining a maskirovka edge through bias in the event that another war with the West was to occur.Perhaps. But since most of these books, models, toys, etc etc are sold to German fetishists in the US, I think the German-Soviet confrontation is not the driving force, rather the US-German confrontation. At the end of the day, most of this german-love comes not from something nefarious but more from the fact that their army looked so darn cool. Cool looking tanks, snappy uniforms, heck, they even have zimmerit. Compare with the clunky US Army (and notice how the modern US Army looks more like WWII Germans than Americans). With air forces, we have the opposite. American/British planes were just so darn sexy that these guys can't resist them. Nothing will ever outsell a model of or book on P-51s, just like nothing will outsell a model of or a book on Tigers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grisha Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Lumbergh, While I still hold to my opinion, you do make a convincing case, and your statement could very well be part of the explanation for my observation. However, I also think the greater familiarity of tactical issues among the general populace contributed to the intense interest in all things Wehrmacht/Luftwaffe/SS. Operational/strategic issues are more the realm of wargamers and the military in general. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbfg Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Originally posted by Grisha: Having said that, I must concede that the bugs-er, Soviets had done little to dispel that ungracious image, [/QB]Marxist experience of marketing is limited I suspect. Perhaps they didn't understand the target demographic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salkin Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 I think you are all right =). //Salkin ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ichadwick Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Hmmm. Imagine a mod - undressed soldiers in battle. Featuring authentic mods of Axis and Soviet underwear. Simulates an army abruptly awoken and sent into battle... Actually I was trying to figure out how to turn all my soldier models into bikini-clad women with overstated mammaries and all the armoured vehicles into pickup trucks and SUVs. But that's for another thread... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mididoctors Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Originally posted by Grisha: Hannibal, Have you read that book by Heinlein, Starship Trooper? Well, western historiography has pretty much depicted the Soviet-German War along those lines. The Germans are the starship troopers, and the Soviets are the bugs. That the Germans lost only gives it that special 'tragic' aura typical of the best of theater and film. Given that collective impress upon modern western civilization, who would you be more interested in? Exactly. One of the best spins of all time. Having said that, I must concede that the bugs-er, Soviets had done little to dispel that ungracious image, but that just may have been a ploy at retaining a maskirovka edge through bias in the event that another war with the West was to occur.I thought Starship troopers was the Korean War? Boris london 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xipe Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Most people would probably have it that it stems from Henleins WWII experiences. I tend to fall into this camp: "Robert A. Heinlein hides a critical examination of the necessity of war in a rousing adventure novel set in the far future. While fighting a war against alien arachnids, the protaganist, Juan Rico, learns not only how to be a soldier, but also decides that while war is not desirable, it is a necessary part of the human condition. Heinlein's novel is clearly influenced by both his World War II service and his dislike of communism, but the "Starship Troopers"is still an interesting read, especially when contrasted to the post-Vietnam works of Joe Haldeman ("The Forever War") and David Drake ("Hammers Slammers")." ..and not just because I dislike communism feverishly. More about it here. A recommended read, if nothing else. [ January 19, 2003, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Xipe ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Well, as far as modelling goes, you can get alot more variety just out of the German ground forces alone. How many different ways can you depict a Panther? Tricolor, Dunkelgelb, Ambush schemes, etc. How many ways can you show off a plain vanilla 75mm Sherman? One... Green. The uniforms of the German troops also gives alot of options for a modeller to take. Looking at the variety of camouflage, especially for Waff.SS, gives me alot of options to take. How many different uniforms can you choose for a US soldier? For modelling US troops I prefer US Marines since their fatigues and helmet covers can look alot different than the usual US soldier's uniform. It's all about variety, though I'm sure it was logistically tough for the Germans. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Originally posted by Warmaker: Well, as far as modelling goes, you can get alot more variety just out of the German ground forces alone. How many different ways can you depict a Panther? Tricolor, Dunkelgelb, Ambush schemes, etc. How many ways can you show off a plain vanilla 75mm Sherman? One... Green. The uniforms of the German troops also gives alot of options for a modeller to take. Looking at the variety of camouflage, especially for Waff.SS, gives me alot of options to take. How many different uniforms can you choose for a US soldier? For modelling US troops I prefer US Marines since their fatigues and helmet covers can look alot different than the usual US soldier's uniform. It's all about variety, though I'm sure it was logistically tough for the Germans.Not to sound accusatory, but these comments stem from ignorance. 75mm Shermans were used by the French, British, Poles, Canadians, and Russians, and in a variety of colour schemes for the desert, winter, Italian and NW Europe. Tactical markings are a study in themselves for Commonwealth units, and yes, camouflage was used even by US troops. I think you may have stumbled on a subsidiary point here - the references available for the Germans multiply the effect of people knowing more about them, and remaining ignorant of the Allies. When I started scale modelling 20 years ago, Tamiya had a dozen kits depicting German soldiers, for example, in 1/35 - and only a half kit with "British infantry". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mididoctors Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Originally posted by Xipe: [QB]Most people would probably have it that it stems from Henleins WWII experiences. I tend to fall into this camp: "Robert A. Heinlein hides a critical examination of the necessity of war in a rousing adventure novel set in the far future. While fighting a war against alien arachnids, the protaganist, Juan Rico, learns not only how to be a soldier, but also decides that while war is not desirable, it is a necessary part of the human condition. Heinlein's novel is clearly influenced by both his World War II service and his dislike of communism, but the "Starship Troopers"is still an interesting read, especially when contrasted to the post-Vietnam works of Joe Haldeman ("The Forever War") and David Drake ("Hammers Slammers")." I thought the skinnies at the beginning represent the conflicts of ww2 (japs etc) who then join in to fight the red hoarde(bugs) as the UN(US?) latter but I will give the link a read... I read as a kid both starship troopers and forever war ... In retrospect i think they are silly stories Boris london 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Murray Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 A little off topic but even though the German stuff sells better; I think the Soviet medals are much more interesting. The German medals are made ( mostly ) of cheap metals ( ie. zinc, etc ) while the Soviet orders are made of sterling silver, gold, etc. The EK I ( Iron Cross 1st class ) is nice but it doesn't hold a candle to the Order of the Red Banner. [ January 19, 2003, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: Rob Murray ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Pilot Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Originally posted by mididoctors: I read as a kid both starship troopers and forever war ... In retrospect i think they are silly stories Boris londonOn the surface, Starship Troopers may seem like a silly sci-fi, hi-tech battle tale. But anyone that takes the time to do more than just skim the combat scenes knows that the book is really about what level of responsibility a person should have in society and how the authority that comes with that responsibility should be exercised. It’s a lesson Heinlein started learning in the 1920s, as soon as he entered the Naval Academy. And, by the way, Heinlein never served in WWII. Tuberculosis forced him out of the Navy in 1934. Ace 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 I miss Startrek. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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