I Finaly Beat the Game In Under One Year

[Gen.Metaxas]

Winning the Game with Germany is Easy.

Playing at defualt settings + Fog of War and Hex Grid on.

As the Germans I had the Game Over window pop up after both England and USA surrendered both in the same turn in the month of April.

If you want to figure the strategy on your own stop reading!

Turn 1

Stage I - Conquer low countries.

Ignore northern corp, attacked city with two air units, two armies from the east and one panzer from the south.

Stage II - Break French Line of Defense

Hit the FR-army in the forest with one Army

Hit FR-army west of it with one air unit and one panzer. Air to Air combat will weaken the FR air unit. Trap is set.

Response - allies pull back center but destroy panzer unit on western border of Low Countries.

Turn II - Destroy all retreating French troops aroud Paris.

Stage III - Ignore Magimo and the 10 point resource beside it unless extra units can reach.

Send in second line to destroy retreating french and clear the path for your two remaining panzers.

Must destroy fr air unit before it escapes, isolate allied units nort of paris and suround paris.

Turn III - Take Paris

France's Surrender is a matter of luck. I was lucky France surrendered that turn.

Stage IV - Prepare for Double invasion (England & US)

You will need 4 armor, 3 HQs and all of your armies and corp units bar 2 on the Russian front.

3 subs atlantic, 1 sub two cruisers north sea

US

land 1 armor, 1 army, 1 HQ north map edge take oil fields and hit costal city

1 army, 1 corps in mid hit air force & navy

1 army in south hit navy

UK

land 2 HQs, 2 armor, every one else

atleast 2 units north of London

the rest from English Chanel

use 1 sub and 2 cruisers in North Sea to protect troops.

use atleast two subs in west side of chanel.

atleast 3 air units as air cover.

You must capture London and one US city as soon as possible.

The rest will be history

You need London and Mancheter to beat England although Canada will fight on.

You need Washington to beat the states.

If both fall game is over even if Canada is not conquered.

Winning the game with the Allies is tough and you need some luck to beat the clock.

Stage I -Deffend France

Key here is to slow the Germans down at minimum cost and try to destroy his tanks at almost any cost.

1 - Bring both french units in africa to france do not commit any UK forces to France except BEF.

2 -Load all UK and CAN forces from all over the world and head for Italy. (Leave one corp in UK's northern city)

3 -English Fleet around England -

Leave north Fleet staitionary until the 2 Germ subs find you.

West coast Fleet move to attack German Coast and Block the Baltic.

- French Fleet West Coast- Attack German Coast

- English Med Fleet Move One Batelship next to Rome and 1 Carrier with 3 hexs from Rome.

Stage II Conquer Italy

Invasion Force

1 corp to land beside venice

1 corp to land on the heel of the boot

1 corp to land in sicily

CAN Army north of Rome, 1 Corp South of Rome, 1 Corp East of Rome.

1 HQ 2 hexes South of Rome

At the same turn you DOW on Italy and invade try you should use one FR corp to Go accros the Maginot Line and One accross ITL FR border north of Genoa.

You should land two UK corp North of Kiel in Germany and try to attack the plane usualy stationed in that city. It is important to capture the hex north east of the City as it gives you the port (germ -10 points, UK +5 points, easy future landing)

If you dont capture Italy in one turn Germany will try to re-enforce her allie from the french front. That is a Great trap aslong as you can take rome and seal the italian german border on your next turn.

Stage III Invade Germany

After the surrender of Italy you should have over 1200 credits. At minimum buy 1 HQ, 1 Tank and 1 Army.

In the next 2 turns as you struggle to move your troops through the southern German border. Move your units on the french border forward.

Use your northern Navy to attack german North Sea coast and the Denmark City.

Land your germ invasion force at your port northeast of keel and attack Keel. You have to take it your first turn.

If you still have one of the two corps you landed there during the Italian invasion send it to liberate denmark.

At this stage you should have already eliminated Germanies 3 tanks and start hunting for his 3 planes.

Once securly landed the German does not have a chance to create a solid 3 boarder front. Try to take as many freebies as you can but in order to win you need to take Berlin and 5 cities. I won on the last turn and held Berlin, Kiel the two French border cities and Prague.

WOW if it wasnt for the time limit I would have never tried. I think the AI needs some tweeking when the unexpected happens.

Germany does not protect itself until it is too late. Easy to set traps.

UK did not try to protect England from an invasion until after it happenned and did not try to land any troops in Europe although I had left no defence.

Italy can be taken out guaranteed 1 to 2 turns.

US can be taken out guaranteed 3-4 turns.

I love the game though and will still buy it when it is finished.

[Hubert Cater]

Sorry to say but these gamey strategies have been tweaked already (enjoy it while it lasts!) expect more detail when the gold demo is announced

Hubert

[aesop]

Great stratagem to wipe out the allies. I was a turn short from taking manchester although I was able to knock off the US fairly easy. Spain joined me asap after the US fell. Too bad ran out of time. Although it took me to invest in 8 airfleets to get a foothold on the isles. Really...really wishing for more turns.

[BloodyBucket]

Originally posted by Hubert Cater:

Sorry to say but these gamey strategies have been tweaked already (enjoy it while it lasts!) expect more detail when the gold demo is announced Tuesday, June 11th!

Hubert

Oh, ok, so he didn't really say the bit about Tuesday, June 11th.

[Combat Opinion Staff]

I got Great Britain to surrender in difficult setting and fog of war on January 10th. And it said "Game Over: Axis Victory!" The U.S. was at 77% and U.S.S.R. 50%. Spain joined axis but noone else. I had the Italians dug in in the East. Canada stayed at war status and Germany got the Egypt area. It was a satisfying ending knowing there were only a few months left to do anything more.

[gorski]

June 11th?! :mad: <kicks over the bloody bucket>

Gorski

[Mannheim Tanker]

Originally posted by Hubert Cater:

Sorry to say but these gamey strategies have been tweaked already (enjoy it while it lasts!) expect more detail when the gold demo is announced

Hubert

Glad to hear it! This was one fear that I had when I first learned about SC. As in Axis and Allies, there will always be players looking for the "perfect" game using a tired old list of preset moves to make that will yield x result. I think it would be great if there was an option to slightly randomize the starting forces to reduce the chance of this happening. I mean, how much fun can it really be to play a game with someone that uses the same series of moves on turns 1 through 10 in each game.

[pzgndr]

these gamey strategies have been tweaked already

Hubert, thank you in advance. We'll just have to see the gold demo later today.

It is June 11, right???

[Steiner14]

After reading this thread (i just finished the Beta Demo and i really love this game!) i was very surprised an invasion of USA is possible to be successful.

In real life, there is (and also was in WWII) absolutely no chance, to beat the USA (by an amphibious landing-operation).

The material and recources of this country are endlessly.

Hubert, i think an option like "realistic mode" where the recources of USA are increased tremendously, would prevent from such fictional scenarios of an invasion USA (btw: the still beeing alive invasion-story was a product by allied propaganda only - no German/Axis plans ever existed).

Even with a whole united Europe, an invasion is impossible - Europe has only few ressources (compared to USA, Europe has nothing).

Even the real Allied invasion in the normandy was for a 10-15 times stronger opponent against the small Germany fighting against Russia a very risky operation (think of the only a few hours to late arriving SS-Pz-corps).

The conclusion for the game could be, that landing-operations should be made much harder (this would have the benefits, that the US-recources could be much more increased, without making an anvasion in Europe too easy).

A main problem at the moment seems to me, that the (in reality) fragile phase of setting up a bridgehead and expanding it, has no correspondence in the game (it's not enough to bring the landing-ships in a good condition to the target-port - it's even more difficult to conquer the necessary land with only a few troops).

I think the strength of landed troops should be drastically reduced for a certain period of time.

How this problem could be solved?

2 ideas:

1.

time aspect: when a landing operation takes place, the time of each turn could be slowed down - in reality, even hours become important for strategic commands/plans (due to the very vulnerable troops during the first hours/days).

Ofcourse this only makes sense, if troops are close enough to the landing zone.

strength aspect: reduced strength of landed troops.

Another positive aspect of the slow-motion effect: when the opposite takes place (evacuating troops), there would be the extra chance of the adjacent enemy troops, to attack the much weaker troops preparing for shipping.

2. idea: more simple to implement, i think: let the 1 week turn, but decreasing the strenght of the landed troops adequately for a good and quite realistic gameplay in the first week.

Another weak point i think: Gibraltar.

There's no possibility to attack ships, when Gibraltar is taken.

I was really keen on to try out, what would have been possible, if Axis would have taken Gibraltar (and also Malta).

But at the moment, this has no negative effect for the enemy ships passing closely by (i haven't tried out, if Gibraltar taken by Axis, already has a negative effect on supply for the british ships in the mediterranean-sea).

Nevertheless, SC is an exiting game, but not very realistic (hopefully only at the moment).

Hope you find some thoughts useful.

Please, excuse my bad English.

[ June 11, 2002, 08:30 PM: Message edited by: Steiner14 ]

[Desert Dave]

Insofar as "tweaking gamey strategies" is concerned, I offer one more (may have already been addressed for the gold demo):

The British situation in the Med is DIRE, to say the least. It is far too easy to lure them into utter annihilation. :eek:

Here is how: Build Italian Air Fleet and place in Libya. One German Air Fleet assigned to southern Greece, while Athens is STILL under seige -- the RN will always come to the aid of Greece, so you have the Italian navy poised to be SURPRISED at southern tip of Greece.

Once initial damage is done (by exaggerated surprise effects and both Axis Air Fleets, finish them off with Italian BBs.

There are variations of this, but the point is that Britain is always eliminated in the Med (at least in my games), allowing invasion of Iraq, conquest of Egypt (by invading far shore to surround and limit reinforcements in Alexandria) and else and otherwise complete domination of the Med by the Axis. Conquest of Malta and Gibralter optional, though not really required.

In the interest of maintaining some rudimentary historical authenticity, I suggest that Royal Navy be bolstered in this area (again, this may have been addressed, either by additional ships, or improved naval-war game mechanix).

[Steiner14]

ImmerEtwas, share your point of view, too.

[pzgndr]

The British situation in the Med is DIRE, to say the least. It is far too easy to lure them into utter annihilation.

Ditto for the German fleet in the North Sea. It's no big deal for the French and British fleets to hunt down and eliminate the German Kriegsmarine. Something needs to change to produce some more realistic naval strategies, but I'm not sure what might work best. Maybe some option for evading contact, or reducing the spotting of fleets. This certainly needs to be considered for subs, but surface fleets should also have more flexibility.

Reducing the combat damage may also help slow things down and give each side time to withdraw. But there's nowhere to run to in the Med and Baltic, unless we prohibit naval attacks against naval units in port. That might be the way to go.

[Desert Dave]

I offer the following in a positive spirit, in hopes that a tricky situation might be resolved... and perhaps it ALREADY has!

I understand that this is primarily a CONTINENTAL war, with most of the decisive action occuring on land hexes (we will be mainly concerned with the full 4-year war between Russia and Germany -- very little naval action).

But, the naval Zones of Control were critical to the movement of men & materiel throughout the course of WW2. True that there were not many Dreadnought sorts of encounters, where fleets would slug it out for extended periods. :eek:

Now, other games such as A3R have used a system where temporary CONTROL would determine if transports/merchant-marine got through or not.

In any event, the defeated force (... say, 10-40% damaged) would often withdraw to safe-harbour in order to preserve the fleet.

This could be effectively represented under the current schematic (IMO, a SUPERIOR one to A3R, and potentially, a GREAT one) if only the damage was significantly reduced in each encounter, thereby allowing the fleet to fight another day.

I am guessing that many will be unwilling to spend MPPs for brand new BBs & Cruisers, BUT they would be inclined to repair (at least several steps anyway) ships that might be salvaged, and that retain hard-gained experience.

[gorski]

It's not all that easy to hunt down the German ships. If the Germans use their air power, the English will lose their entire home fleet to kill 2 cruisers and a sub.

Gorski

[pzgndr]

If the Germans use their air power

I agree, but that's a big IF for the AI right now. I routinely pound the German navy for maybe a lost French cruiser and some other damage. The Luftwaffe can't support both blitzkrieg in France and air patrols from Denmark, so this is a risk.

[Straha]

Playing again and again, I came to think that - all in all - there are really just a few things which need tweaking in the naval model. All of them were already mentioned by several posters:

- the surprise effects generally are too strong (not only for subs, but there it is most obvious. The same goes for the tanks to a lesser degree).

- the transports are too robust

- the CVs should be much less vulnerable when attacking a unit which itself does not have the CV in attacking range.

Straha

[gorski]

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If the Germans use their air power

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I agree, but that's a big IF for the AI right now. I routinely pound the German navy for maybe a lost French cruiser and some other damage. The Luftwaffe can't support both blitzkrieg in France and air patrols from Denmark, so this is a risk.

I meant vs human opponents. The SC AI is great compared to AI's in other computer games, but the SC AI is still hopelessly outclassed by human opponents. You can't make play balance decisions that will be good for both human and AI games. (At least not in this case)

Gorski