Official Update

[Moon]

DevilDog, make sure you check the link Hubert just posted. It does explain where the line is drawn. There really are no grey areas. There ARE grey areas in what we (the developer/the publisher) might tolerate and what not - if somebody was to make a new set of unit icons based on the original ones, nobody would say anything else but "thanks" - but that doesn't change the legal situation.

As for the motives and intents of the individual in question, these aren't even relevant. As I said, NO reason is a valid excuse to steal a car. Not "it was easy", and not "I really like the game". And the fact that he went public with it (not only here), as well as some recent activity we were able to monitor, actually indicates different motives, despite his apology to Hubert.

Hags has been banned from this forum.

[Priest]

Hubert, BFC, BTS

I stand by you all. My 25 dollars is ready when you are Hubert, hell my 50 dollars is ready when you are. I put my money behind those who have earned my respect and who deserve it. Just say when my friends.

[DevilDog]

Thanks Hubert - concise and straight forward on what is modible.

Moon - If you have additional info concerning Hags actions then I agree with banning him. If it was his intent to steal SC then by all means go after him. All I had to go off of when I made my comments was his original post, and shall we say, the highly "modded" repost that someone at BTS reposted.

[Old&Slow]

Hubert

If the Beta Testers say "go" forget the "Gold Demo", just do the master and take orders.

A Gold Demo is just more fodder for the hackers to screw with the ending date and then go public with it.

I`ve played about 50 hours on the current Demo on XP and find it Bug Free...so the code is stable, any bugs from the new enhancements then should be minor and the 1.1 patch fixes that.

Start ringing the Cash Register for yourself & Battlefront, you deserve it !

[Valadictum]

This is all very unfortunate as its not just Huberts parade thats potentially been tarnished, but the hard work from the beta testers (or Beta Boys as someone's named them)too. This is like finding a fly in your porridge.

This is a GREAT GAME and I hope the bad behaviour of one person hasn't ruined it for everyone. Hubert and the people at Battlefront have all my best wishes.

[Straha]

Whereas the gold demo is probably meant and needed to entice new customers to buy a game which will not get heavily advertised in gaming magazines etc, I would advise to take some features completely out to make any hacking worthless. E.g. research would be a good candidate as it does not mean too much in the one year timeframe, but comes to bear in the long run.

Straha

[Aloid]

Originally posted by Straha:

Whereas the gold demo is probably meant and needed to entice new customers to buy a game which will not get heavily advertised in gaming magazines etc, I would advise to take some features completely out to make any hacking worthless. E.g. research would be a good candidate as it does not mean too much in the one year timeframe, but comes to bear in the long run.

Straha

Excellent idea! And get that demo out on the game mag CD's! (If possible)

Aloid

[mmtt]

Hello,

Like any others, I would like to thanks you for entertaining me with this great game. I'm deeply sorry and afflicted with this "incident".

Yet, I think it mays have be better to explain clearly what happens(dont feel any criticism here). I know Hags hacked the beta demo and extenguished the game. But did he want to publish his hacked demo? Keeping it for himself and pay the game? I dunno.

But again, I think this game is a great one, fun, simple and deep.

Keep up the good work Hubert and any other members of Battlefront.com.

On a side note, the harbour of Bordeaux is mispelled. It's Arcachon if I remember correctly(I'm French).

Go on, I'm saving my little money for you good darn game and don't let incidents of life break you, Hubert!

Best regards from France. Sorry for mispelling.

[ July 06, 2002, 07:03 AM: Message edited by: mmtt ]

[BloodyBucket]

Good news on the updated features. Lousy news on the hacking.

I don't have the technical knowledge to suggest how to secure your property from theft, but I can suggest to the many supporters of SC that the best response available is to promote the game. Tell anyone you think might be interested in a game like SC about SC.

Post to other forums. Get extra copies as gifts. Let others know that you think it is a great game.

I can say that I'm dissapointed and that I support Hubert, BTS and Fury. I can DO a little word of mouth advertising, and that might bring results.

[husky65]

When it releases I'm ordering it (if I could pre order it, I would have).

I can't give advice on how to mitigate the damage that Hags idiot has done, I'm not a programmer.

However I would consider a damages claim against him, if not that at least an e-mail to his ISP requesting that they withdraw his service given that on comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical he was offering to e-mail instructions on how to hack the demo to anyone who asked.

Clearly illegal and almost certainly in violation of his terms of service with his ISP, with a bit of luck he might get some idea of what hes done if they yank his access.

I would ignore the little turds apology (except to use it as an admission of guilt in a damages action), given that he has written a self righteous 'semi-apology' on comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical I think we can see that he is not actually sorry for what he has done.

For the rest of us, why not drop in on the newsgroup and make your opinions of Hags known in response to his 'apology'.

[ July 05, 2002, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: husky65 ]

[waltero]

Dont we deserve better than A guy ruining it for us!

I mean what is It all about?

This is HURERTS game

You did a good job. I am a wargamer and love what you have created.

I thnk Hags got a little excided, when he found out that he could continue the game.

Dont know the guy, think he likes wargames, and wanted to give us something.

I dont feel you should make us pay for that.

I appreciate the demo thx.

[GWDWD]

Pirating software (or music or movies) is wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Having said that, I would venture a guess that everyone on this board has done it before. Why is it so different this time? Here's my $0.02...

What made this so egregious is that this is a COMMUNITY, and this jackass crossed over the line of the community’s standards in a BIG way. I can’t imagine stealing from BFC, let alone boasting about it on this board and the newsgroup mentioned earlier. (Not that I condone stealing from other, perhaps larger, software companies.)

I would never approve of what Hags did, but I wasn’t as outraged as I am now until I went and read his posts on the Usenet group mentioned. Apology, my ass. What really ticked me off was the other Schweinehunden there whining about how awful “company boards” are and how BFC is just out to get this guy... give me a break. If they spent more than 15 minutes in this COMMUNITY they would see how wrong they are, which of course they don’t, because they don’t want to.

BFC has earned their money from me many times over. Just take a look at CMBO, which cost me say $60 including shipping and handling… had it for 8 months = $7.50/month... I play 1 hour/day on the average (actually it's much more but I'm trying to hide my addiction). That works out to... $0.25/hour. Try finding something as engrossing for a freaking quarter an hour. Can’t be done. I’d pay 10 times a much in a heartbeat, and I still wouldn't expect the support and commitment that BFC provides. That's not even mentioning these bulletin boards, which are the most entertaining I have found so far. They ain't free, and I haven't spent a penny for them.

I just can’t believe someone would steal something that costs $25 and brag about it. These people obviously have issues much deeper than wanting to steal software.

But just for kicks, let’s make it like that old TV show whose name I can’t recall (help me out here). Email me with your hardship story about why you can’t afford SC and I will take your case into consideration. I am NOT rich by virtually anyone's standards but I make far more money than I can spend. (Has a lot more to do with few material wants than a high income.) I pledge at least $250 out of my own pocket to support BFC, and if I don't make it that far because people think I'm a crackpot (they wouldn't necessarily be wrong), I will donate the difference to a charity of BFC's choosing.

Respectfully and thankfully (though donning a flame-retardant suit just in case),

Guy

[BloodyBucket]

Buy a bunch of SC copies and give them to people you think might enjoy the game. It is a great way to introduce people to the hobby.

[GWDWD]

Originally posted by BloodyBucket:

Buy a bunch of SC copies and give them to people you think might enjoy the game. It is a great way to introduce people to the hobby.

I'd love to, but I don't know enough people who might be interested. Only 2 brothers, ya know. Only one would be into this sort of thing...

That leaves 9 copies left courtesy of GWDWD...

Guy

[Ancient One]

Great, overall the list of changes looks good. One thing concerns me however:

Originally posted by Hubert Cater:

- added a 'Disable Undo' option (this can be toggled at any time, but is locked in for Hotseat/PBEM)

Maybe I'm misinterpreting you, but does this mean that in Hotseat the 'Disable Undo' option is mandatory? I prefer to play the game with Fog of War off, especially in Hotseat games (I like to watch my opponent take his turn, and comment on his moves). As far as I can tell, the undo option can only be abused if the Fog of War is on. I often make errors in where to move, and would like the option to make undoing moves possible during the Hotseat game. I'm also planning to teach my 11 year old brother how to play this game, and certainly alot of mistakes will be made necessitating the use of the undo button.

On a similar note, I'm worried that the game has not been balanced with Fog of War: OFF in mind to the same extent it has with ON. Have the OFF players been shafted?

[felixgrey]

Hubert,

I just want to add my heart felt thanks from another long time lurker. Can't wait for the game.

Scott

[Wolfpack]

Well, I was hoping for the release to come in about a month when I could whine to my family that I wanted it for my birthday. I'm trying to pay off debts now and also preparing for a move to Florida from San Antonio ($700 for a lousy 15' truck? That's insane). Hopefully once I get there and get settled I'll have my new job and have some spare cash...pretty sad when $25 dollars is too much money for something this fun. Until then I suppose I'll just have to be jealous of all of you that will get to play it on release.

As for Hags...that was pure idiocy on his part, and he deserves anything and everything he gets. The act was bad enough, but then to advertise it in various places (including the board of the company releasing it) with offers to help others do the same? How much of a moron do you have to be? It doesn't matter if he was planning to buy it because he was encouraging others to follow his path. And as for his comments on the newsgroup, that just goes to emphasize what an incredable idiot he is. "Oh, well, they didn't say I couldn't...and they refused to give a release date. :whine: You see, these are the cases that euthanasia should be allowed...does he need to be allowed to breed?

Anyway, thanks for the game Hubert, once I get the thing, I'll make sure and drink a few in your honor while I'm scouring the earth with my fascist hordes (Or liberating it from them).

[Massattack]

This game proves that the best games don't require the latest 3D graphics, bells, whistles to impress. The creative imagination put into the making of this game ensures that the endless "what ifs?" and permutations it offers will keep me and many others intrigued and absorbed for a long time to come after it's eagerly anticipated release. To Hubert my heartfelt congratulations and admiration, Don't let the misdemeanours of immature individuals discourage you from your obvious talent for producing outstanding, first class products.

Regards.

[Stormbringer]

Originally posted by GWDWD:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BloodyBucket:

Buy a bunch of SC copies and give them to people you think might enjoy the game. It is a great way to introduce people to the hobby.

I'd love to, but I don't know enough people who might be interested. Only 2 brothers, ya know. Only one would be into this sort of thing...

That leaves 9 copies left courtesy of GWDWD...

Guy</font>

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

How bout best aar?

[SuperTed]

Originally posted by Carl Von Mannerheim:

How bout best aar?

CVM,

I assume I couldn't enter then, huh?

[Carl G. E. von Mannerheim]

How bout this, you judge the contest superted!

[XPav]

As one of the afore-mentioned "Schweinehunden" on the newsgroup, I feel like walking into here and starting a fight.

The parts you will like to hear:

I got lots of enjoyment from Combat Mission. It was a fun game, and well worth the money I spent for it. The demo of SC was fun, but the game was slightly too beer & pretzels for my tastes. $25 seems like an extremely fair price for it.

I in no way, shape, or form condone piracy of this game or any others. I interned briefly for a game company, and those folks deserve all the money they get.

Now for the part which you will not like to hear:

People WILL poke around in games. As I stated in the newsgroup, I "hacked" the original Rainbow Six demo so I could play it longer. The hack involved removing failure conditions of a mission so that, in effect, the timer was removed.

This let me play the demo a little longer, but in fact, because there was only one level shipped with the game, didn't give me much more gameplay.

In addition, the multiplayer on the demo was ostensibly disabled. After it was determined that one just had to use the keyboard to get to the multiplayer option, everyone piled on-line, and I spend a nice afternoon (at work!) playing Rainbow Six against the developers.

So, by two counts, I did things that I wasn't supposed to in the demo. Am I evil? Do I deserve to be drawn/quartered/mailbombed? I DID buy the game, after all.

Game demos *are* frequently hacked and poked at in an effort to make them work. I develop software -- and my demo cannot be turned into a full version, no matter what you do. Too many pieces are missing.

Hubert has learned the hard and discouraging lesson that there are people besides the people on this board that may buy Strategic Commander, and indeed, may not want to pay the $25 for it. It sucks, but what Hubert has to do is make the "barrier for stealing" quite a bit higher than merely hexediting a scenario.

Battlefront and its developers, being small, are fairly strict on their "mod" policy. Compared to first person shooters or strategy games, in fact, there is absolutely no moddability in Combat Mission. That's all very understandable, because Battlefront and their developers don't have the time to make a super-user-modifiable game and all the work that it entails to get that right (especially for multiplayer), and they really need to sell new versions of software to keep the doors open.

I don't begrudge them that. They deserve to stay open and make money (as long as they make games people buy).

My other criticism of this entire issue is that Battlefront's "editing" of Hag's post is just, well, tacky. Its the other reason I like newsgroups. No one can change what I write, even if its unpopular.

SO: In summary:

Hags is stupid for crowing about his crack in various places. He appears to realize this now.

"The Community" is stupid for treating this guy like the reincarnation of Benedict Arnold. Its like the scrabble club ordering a hit on poor Mrs Fletcher because she took one too many tiles from the box.

Hubert should have realized that people will poke into his game, and taken appropriate steps.

Battlefront shouldn't have edited Hags post. Let it stand on its own. If its so evil, no need for you to edit it.

Battlefront should somewhere on their website or in a readme file, clarify exactly what they will and will not allow in regards to the modifications of the game.

And that's what I have to say.

[Delta]

Xpav, although I agree with many of your points, you must realize that this is Huberts first game. I think he has done astonishingly well for his first game. Now he knows that in the future he will have to take out much of the features in the demo, so it will be just enough to get people hooked and ready for more, but not enough that people can hack it and play it like the full version.

I think he realizes that now, and i would bet he is fixing stuff like that for the Gold Demo.

Oh, and I agree that hags shouldnt be treated like benedict arnold. He should be treated like a pirate, like an idiot. Sure, I have pirated games in the past, but guess what? Out of the pirated games I have DLed, i have only kept one on my HD! Most of them sucked, and I deleted them within a few days. I dont really trust reviews of other people, and if the game doesnt have a demo, than I take it upon myself to play the game before I buy it. I know many of you do not condone any form of piracy, and thats ok. I respect that. But pirating a game that HAS a demo, or hacking the demo itself (if it allows you to get the full game), is something that I cannot respect... something that makes me mad.

And as if that werent bad enough in the first place, because IMO pirating games (and keeping them on your HD or not buying it after) is bad enough.... but its even worse when its done against a small company. Hubert and the rest of the developement team worked their asses of for this game, and they deserve and NEED all the money that they can get. Piracy against big companies might not hurt the companies as much (and its still wrong), but piracy against small companies hurt the small comapnies DEARLY. They count on a certain number of copies just to stay open or pay the bills, much less get a profit.

Hubert, good luck with the game. I have my credit card at the ready.

[husky65]

Originally posted by XPav:

"The Community" is stupid for treating this guy like the reincarnation of Benedict Arnold. Its like the scrabble club ordering a hit on poor Mrs Fletcher because she took one too many tiles from the box.

Self justifying drivel snipped, 'Mrs Fletcher has not taken one too many tiles' - Mrs Fletcher stole the board and then started telling other people how to steal boards too, Mrs Fletcher then came into the clubhouse and started crowing about having stolen the board, and blaming the club secretary and treasurer for the theft, suggesting that if they had set the games up sooner she would never have needed to steal.

I can only assume that you have the moral development of a 10 year old if you think what he has done is justifiable.