Delta

God damnit..... it happened ONCE AGAIN!!! My friend is quite pissed. So am I. This time it froze March 7th. All when Russia was buying Corps left and right. The setting was green, with no increase to computer experience (hey, sue us, we're n00bs to the hardcore wargaming scene - we are used to conventional RTS and games like Red Alert 2 and starcraft and others like Axis and Allies and junk). My friend says I also think its a "dicky" thing to do, as he so eloquently put it. Surely there was more options to hacker-proof the game than disabling the save option? Cripes, either way, a serious enough hacker could make save games possible, it would just take a crap load of time and effort.... so I guess you got your objective done since you turned away most pirates and hackers by doing so.... but still, its quite annoying for the average player. He also asks why the heck its much harder to do take cities and kill units... so I told him about Hubert increasing defense and decreasing offense attack points. He says thats real stupid because its not nessesarry to both decrease attacking strength and increase defensive measures like entrenchment value and defense attack points. Its overkill to do both, because it just makes defending that much easier. In RTS, theres a term "Hermit" for players that only make static defenses and some mobile reserves to defend the base... and its pretty hard to do so for the most part. But what you are doing here is just making it that much easier to be a "hermit", and hide behind your defense lines of corps while the attacker gets his ass handed to him. I would like to add, that we love your game, and enjoyed the beta demo for countless games and numerous hours. We just think that you guys made a couple of mistakes with the game, but thats ok, because if we can do some mods to it (to make it kind of easier to attack and sort of put it back the way it was in the beta demo, than there is really no issue here).... but since we got the gold demo, which was going to hold us over till the game is shipped to us, well... its kinda sucky to have it freeze at seemingly random intervals (when russia purchases over a certain amount of corps, or any units for that matter). We wanted to play the gold demo ever since we heard about it. Now its a big dissapointment. Oh well. Hopefully you will adress these bug issues in the gold demo, and hopefully you will allow people like us to mod the game so that it will be what it was like in the beta demo (minus the gamey strategies and bugs, of course). [ July 19, 2002, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: Delta ]

Ah, fixed it. I found the solution on another post. What you have to do is delete the beta demo and everything that is related to it. That did it for me, cause my friend just played and it didnt freeze for him after I deleted everything. Now the only problem is the gold demo ends only 2 turns farther than the beta demo.... bah!

I also have a problem with the Gold demo. I dont know if it is related, but go here. http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=000605

Every time (literally, I tried it 3 times, then I got fed up with it, because of no save setting.) Every time I invade Russia after I defeat france, it goes fine until may. And that during may, Russia goes through its turn, and is almost done, but purchases a few corps, and when trying to purchase the last one, it freezes the game. A quick ctrl-alt-delete shows that SC is "not responding". Its ****ed up... and Im getting quite pissed, cause Ive been waiting for this demo for soooo long (ever since I got sick of the beta demo). If it helps, Im using XP Home, and P4 1.65 processer with 256mb DDR RAM. (Im on my friends computer right now, this is his computers problem.... hopefully it will not happen on my 1337 Athlon 1800+xp, 512mb DDR RAM, Geforce 3, on the XP Home platform. Please tell me what I can do to fix it, and if you dont know how, or cant tell, than can you at least tell me when there going to be a patch to help me? Isnt anyone else having the same problem? Maybe its just XP Home, or maybe its just my bad luck I would like a response ASAP. Thanks guys. [ July 19, 2002, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: Delta ]

Thanks hubert.

I thought that they were different. I think they are, still. Maybe they are just working real hard. HOpefull thats it, and not that they are a bunch of wankers prancing around an answer, like a lot of other devs are.

Ok guys, we have waited over a week after the hags incident for the gold demo. Now its just getting a little frustrating. You said this week would be the week, you explicitelly implied and even directly said it in plain words. Every day this week I would wake up and come to the site to see if I could order or if the Gold demo came out..... to no avail. Now its Friday, and still no announcement, and still no word from the devs. I dont understand it. You should at least say something like "We are running into a couple of small problems here, the gold demo will probably be released sometime early next week" or something like that. You should at least say something to us, inform us. We really cant ask for more. Just keep us in the loop, which youve done so many times in the past. Lately youve been on the forums but havent been informing us that much (at least not about the gold demo and/or release). Please, Hubert and friends, RESPOND! Thanks in advance.

I not only want it..... I NEED IT!!! /me cries

Hi guys. I just wanted to know exactly when is the game going to be gold, and if you cant answer that, than I hope you can answer my next question. When is the gold demo coming out? Please, do tell! I cant seem to wait any longer! Ive played over 30 games in the demo, I just cant get enough! But its really really hard to wait for this game to come out! I hope it comes out soon, cause i can barely wait!!!!!!! OMG I WANT IT!! PS. THANK YOU DEVS FOR MAKING SUCH A GREAT GAME. I hope you guys are successful in your next ventures.

Bah I am not going to respond to your harsh comments, I will just let you win. I like how you kept on saying harsh and hurtful things but then said ok to stop the argueing. lol, your a silly guy. Now, back to clicking refresh on the order page every 5 seconds

Nice post Hubert. Now get back to work! Onward onward! *cracks whip*

Whatever. If you dont believe me than thats fine. You can just keep on believing your truth, and I will keep on believing mine. Hmmmm... I dont know..... Team Fortress II.... CounterStrike: Condition Zero... do they ring ANY bells? Apparently you do not follow the industry or only follow the wargame part of the industry. Therefore you can not know how many people bought Half Life just for the mods. I just asked people in 5 games of defeat games and the total amount of people were 86. Out of that 86 people, 14 said they bought Half Life just to play the mods. Now, that may be a lot comparitively, but I think you can get the drift of the mod community from that. What I mean is, the percentage in that survey is high, but it may be higher or lower in the mod community - but you get the general flow of things. Good, then you can read Moons post and see that Hubert allows modding, and that all you have to do is ask first. Then maybe we can stop this argueing and get back to being friends That was just an example dude. And besides, it would be pretty cool. If someone did that I would be hardpressed to turn my head away. But if Hubert DIDNT allow we would know that something along those lines is in developement and we just got free info No, actually MODS IS THE ISSUE I AM ARGUEING ABOUT. NOT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS (Well, I was argueing about that before, but I read up on some laws like you suggested, and I was proved wrong in that aspect. At least I am man enough to admit when I am wrong.) I have personal experience with people I know online and offline that have said they bought Half Life because they wanted to play the mods. Some said the mods were just icing on the cake, but some said the mods were the cake, and that the single player game was icing. Uh, not really. The only thing I am argueing about is modding. That is what I am talking about here. Obviously this thread was originally about hacking and hags, but, in my mind, it turned into a thread about modding. Thats why I said its an offshoot issue. Yeah, but modding is going to be done either way. You MUST realize that! Just because its illigal doesnt mean its going to stop. Outlaw ice cream and people will still get it one way or another. LMAO. Your an alright guy, you stick to your morals. I admire that. Now lets stop this silly argueing once and for all Ok then, now we can get back to being our old grognard selves.

Yes I was wondering this also, I had nearly taken the Urals and was needing some air defense in france, cause the RAF was bombing the crap outa me Twas my best game so far. I dont think we will be able to copy and paste our saved games, but you never know.

Sounds good! Im going to have to pick some of these up, or order them from amazon as soon as Im finished with Volume 4 of 'The Hurtgen Forest' and Barbarossa (forgot the name of the author).

Cool link Thanks hubert!

Yes it did, it got people to buy the game. How many people bought Half Life because of Day of Defeat, TFC, or Counter Strike? WHO KNOWS! But it obviously attracted sales, because when CS got really popular, sales for Half Life went up (I forgot where I read that, I think it was Planet HalfLife, several months back). Whatever. They didnt write the mods, they didnt and couldnt because their resources were tied up in other games. So were Sierras. Obviously you have no clue about mod communities. Yes, I know that. It is their right. But its not like thats going to stop many people from modding. It will happen either way. If there are less strict guidlines to follow, or less guidelines to follow, than a lot more people would be willing to follow them because they dont have the sense of the company being draconian-esque. Or, with a case by case basis, its even better (given that the companies arent really strict about it).

No they dont, they add to the fun, and it makes the mod long lasting. Many mods in other communities attract sales! What about Team Fortress? Day of Defeat? Counterstrike? Tac Ops? See where Im going with this? Many mods will just make the game fun, and add a bit more depth that the developers didnt have time to put in (like airborne units), but some ACTUALLY GET MORE PEOPLE TO BUY THE GAME!!! And even if that werent true (but it is), would it really matter if all it did was add more fun and depth to already paying customers? Sorry Moon... I kinda felt that the piracy incident brought up the modding issue, but I know that they are separate issues and one is clear cut (what hags did was wrong), and the other now resolved, because of your last post, Moon. Moon, I agree 100%. I think that all there was, was a misunderstanding on my part, at least. I didnt know that there are a lot of mods for CM, cause Ive never played it and Im new to your game community (FYI, the adds in some PC games mags do work! Good job on your ads in PC Games!). If all you have to do is ask before you do it, and most of the time you get permission, then theres really no issue here. I am glad to hear that, because, at least IMO, a strong mod community means extra lasting fun for the buyers! Shiat, maybe with custom scenarios and mods we will be able to last till SC2? Thanks Hubert, and Moon, and the rest of the Battlefront people. You've made a great game here and I wish you all a successful career! Good luck with future games. I for one am going to advertise this game as a great game, by word of mouth and through other forums. I think we all should do the same. Its the least we can do because they created this masterpiece! [ July 07, 2002, 09:17 AM: Message edited by: Delta ]

Husky I used to have respect for you but now your just trying to defend your previous statements. It isnt being a thief if you buy the game, and then mod it.

I agree 100% Bloodybucket. I agree 98% XPav

Sorry guys, its kind of hard coming from a community in where not a lot of people know much about WW2, or any history for that matter. www.dayofdefeatmod.com is not a place in which many history enthuesiests dwell... well, at least not anymore since they took the history forum down. Again, sorry. Sometimes I cant tell if someones being sarcastic, even in real life

Bravo. *applauds XPav*

Uh, how is it STEALING when all your doing is editing? Jesus christ people! In the Fallout Tactics community, people made a sprite editor for the game, and ITS ACTUALLY LINKED TO ON THE OFFICIAL SITE. People also made hacks so that you could change your save game file, to make changes to your character (from adding some skills, to making them an unstopable god-like character). Is THAT stealing? Of course it isnt. But by your reasoning, and even though the person BOUGHT THE GAME, it IS stealing! How absurd is that? I support Hubert in whatever action he takes against Hugs, and I believe hugs stole the game, basically. But to say that its stealing IP rights when all you do is change a file or two within the game WHEN YOU ACTUALLY BOUGHT THE GAME, IS TOTALLY BEYOND ME. I dont understand why Battlefront is so strict against modding their games... i mean, they should encourage it! Its a way to keep the community alive and growing, with more new blood coming in as a result. Lets say someone mods the game so that the United States will be a playable country... that could possibly get more gamers wanting to download that mod, and more importantly, BUY THE GAME! Just like how people saw ads for Counterstrike and Day of Defeat, and other mods, and it made them want to go buy Half Life in order to download them. Battlefront should allow, and support, people who want to mod their games. Sheesh, its going to happen either way, you might as well try to regulate it a bit. Like, maybe release developement tools a few months after the games release. Or maybe just some very simple tools. The scenario editor is a GREAT start. Modding game files like the map and stuff to add more hexes/countries shouldnt be outlawed, it should be ALLOWED. It means more playability! More fun! Maybe you could allow modding of most files, and not allow the modding of some. I dont know which, but outlawing them all seems Draconian, and also seems like its going to do nothing more than piss people off.... in which case, they are still going to do mods. Having such a strict policy on mods isnt really going to do much, like i said before. Mods are going to be done either way, you might as well make it easier for the people, and in turn, they might respect you more (instead of thinking "oh this is BS!! this big company isnt allowing the creation of mods! f*ck them! im gonna do it anyway".... they say "oh cool, they allow and support mods! thats awsome, maybe ill follow their their rules."). I cant believe some of you guys think that modding a file or two, or all (like a total conversion) is wrong, and is stealing. Its not stealing if you pay for the game. Plain and simple. Maybe Im wrong, but whats the chance of that happening twice

Xpav, although I agree with many of your points, you must realize that this is Huberts first game. I think he has done astonishingly well for his first game. Now he knows that in the future he will have to take out much of the features in the demo, so it will be just enough to get people hooked and ready for more, but not enough that people can hack it and play it like the full version. I think he realizes that now, and i would bet he is fixing stuff like that for the Gold Demo. Oh, and I agree that hags shouldnt be treated like benedict arnold. He should be treated like a pirate, like an idiot. Sure, I have pirated games in the past, but guess what? Out of the pirated games I have DLed, i have only kept one on my HD! Most of them sucked, and I deleted them within a few days. I dont really trust reviews of other people, and if the game doesnt have a demo, than I take it upon myself to play the game before I buy it. I know many of you do not condone any form of piracy, and thats ok. I respect that. But pirating a game that HAS a demo, or hacking the demo itself (if it allows you to get the full game), is something that I cannot respect... something that makes me mad. And as if that werent bad enough in the first place, because IMO pirating games (and keeping them on your HD or not buying it after) is bad enough.... but its even worse when its done against a small company. Hubert and the rest of the developement team worked their asses of for this game, and they deserve and NEED all the money that they can get. Piracy against big companies might not hurt the companies as much (and its still wrong), but piracy against small companies hurt the small comapnies DEARLY. They count on a certain number of copies just to stay open or pay the bills, much less get a profit. Hubert, good luck with the game. I have my credit card at the ready.

Can there be a mod to the game wen it comes out to extend the time limit? Cause it seems to me winter months will go rather fast, and the years may seem to go fast after a couple times playing it. Is this considered hacking the game? Or since you bought it cant you mod it cause you bought it? I dont know, please clarify this

No it didnt you idiot. Even if every man had a STG44 with the Vampyre night vision set, and with a Panzerfaust/shreck, that would have helped, but it sure as hell wouldnt have won the war. The project was started so late in the war,IIRC, the first operational ones were used very late 44, early 45. Besides, Vampyres were made in such low quantities (in the low thousands, IIRC), that it didnt do a lot of help, except in small raids/attacks. And those raids didnt do much to slow down the allied onslaught either. Even with another 10,000 Panther G's, with their night vision sets on, the Allies would still have won. It was a supply issue, plain and simple. The allies had more. Russia made something like 7,000 T-34s in its lowest production year, and Germany made a couple of thousand tanks (forgot which model) in its HIGHEST production year. Germany lost the war after 42, thats a fact. After all the disasters in the East Front, and failing to get the oil fields in the Caucasus, and failing to take Moscow, they lost the war. No amount of Vampyres could have done them any good. Germany was losing supplies fast even in 41. Plus it didnt help that they couldnt mass produce. Allies would have won either way. [ July 06, 2002, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: Delta ]