Col Deadmarsh Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 After having seen Saving Private Ryan and Thin Red Line, I can't wait for Enemy At The Gate. But wouldn't it be great to have a weekly show about some platoon and its adventures throughout different battles? I'm guessing the cost of such an enterprise would be too much to spend every week and that's why we never see anything like that. I suppose for it to work, you'd have to find a way around using tanks and showing destroyed cities to keep costs down. I've only seen a few episodes of Combat! but I think that's how they got around it. I'm sure with today's technology and a budget similar to Star Trek: The Next Generation, somebody could make something worthwhile week after week. Would be great to watch a cool show like that then plop myself in front of the computer and fire up CM. ------------------ Youth is wasted on the young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robeek Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 Well... I don't know about a hollywood-spawned TV show, but I do know that you can generally get a good fix for WWII battles/history by just watching the History Channel. Between the mafia and great disasters/inventions, that's about the only thing they talk about on there. (Sarcasm, they do have some other topics they get into) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 Originally posted by Robeek: (Sarcasm, they do have some other topics they get into) Yea, I saw a show about mafia disasters/inventions during WWII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 Most likely it won't be done. This means VIOLENCE!! horror of horrors. This means shooting people, blowing people up. horror of horrors. Seriously I am old enough to have watched COMBAT in its first run along with THE UNTOUCHABLES. What canceled these shows wasn't so much ratings but the violence and constant killing of so many people on each show. In this day and age it is less likely. MikeT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow 1st Hussars Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 Tour of duty was an amazing show, now if they could turn that into WW2.... ------------------ Charlie don't Surf shadow@jagdtiger.de http://www.orbitonline.ca/~Shadow/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJMello Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 Maybe a light hearted romp through North Africa with "The Rat Patrol" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnesota Joe Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 It could be done as an HBO original series, but a I for one would favor a bi-weekly, quality WWII show over say...WWII JAG or some other POS that doesn't deserve the title WWII in it. ------------------ Ah scheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 The 10 episode HBO series BAND OF BROTHERS (produced by Spielberg and Hanks) will be on sometime this year... I personally cannot wait. ------------------ "Fear is for the enemy... Fear and Bullets." "They didn't want to come... but I told em, by jeepers, it was an order." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 There was a pilot for a sitcom called GIs many years back. I saw it when I was 12, and dimly remembered it for years and years, then finally posted on the internet after SPR came on and asked if anyone knew what I was talking about or if I was crazy. Some guy in Saskatoon mailed me a VHS copy about a week later. It was supposed to be a "black comedy" like MASH, set in Italy in WW II. The pilot, which didn't sell, was aired as a "comedy special" instead. It was about US troops in Italy in WW II. [This message has been edited by Michael Dorosh (edited 02-11-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 Every 3 years since I went into the business, there has been talk of a WW2 setting for a pilot. Variety will do up an article on the subject, someone will run it up the flag pole, research will get done, and nothing ever happens. Fact is the economy is against it. Even with special effects it would recquire at least 3 very large shooting locations, one of which would need to be kind of big. They would need to gather property on the order of Saving Private Ryan, and they would need to develop a plausible story line, since audiences are far less willing to invest in suspended disbelief than in years past. All of this could be solved (although a sitcome is a much smaller gamble) then you run into the brick wall. Your demos for women suck. The only war / action shows to survive in the 1980s and 90s for more than a single season were MASH and [i[China Beach , with JAG not actually being in the genre (technically it is a cop show). So you are left with what could be a successful niche, but if you cannot attract women then it has to be a sitcom. Shows that stayed on the air without the female demo, like Homicide: Life on the Street that included location shooting and expensive casting and sets were threatened each season with death, until Homicide added a character especially to attract women (Brodie) and later kept this demo with Giardello's son. Now, although a budget like Star Trek is less likely, since women are not in the audience for the show (unless you want it to be about a USO tour or a hospital and just happen to be set in WW2) there is hope. The Sci-Fi channel has made a break out with a whole night of original series tightly targeted to a very particular audience: Lexx targeted to men, Farscape to women, the Invisible Man to families, and Crossing Over to the Oprah Winfrey crowd. With narrow but very well served audiences, a willingness to make a show some will hate but others will love (I personally hate Lexx, but they did not make it for me either), and some money in the bank, they did make some good, fairly expensive shows, and even gambled and won on Dune. You may see the History Channel waking up and trying their own original series, and no era would sell better than WW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 Any of you old-timers remember "Twelve O'Clock High"? It ran consecutive with "Combat" and, if I remember correctly, what killed those two shows was the public backlash against the Vietnam War. There was another one that was a comedy called "Mr Roberts" after the famous film, it died from the same syndrome. I think a miniseries would be a possibility as long as an anti-war theme played out in the stories. ------------------ Blessed be the Lord my strength who teaches my hands to war and my fingers to fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 I still miss Gomer Pyle... Well, Gooooolly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted February 12, 2001 Author Share Posted February 12, 2001 Growing up, I loved Black Sheep Squadron. The fighting scenes looked pretty fake mixed in with the historical footage, but hell, it was the only one of its kind and damn original. Great characters on that show too. I loved that cranky ol' seargent who worked on the planes. "Damn college boys..." Anyways, going back to this thing...maybe cable *is* the answer. I could see HBO doing something like this and making it work. The key would be to aim for one audience though, the male one. You can't sell a bunch of blood and guts to women unless they're cracking jokes in hospitals rooms like M*A*S*H. Come to think of it, didn't the producers of Black Sheep Squadron put a bunch of nurses on the island at the end of that show's run? Sounds like maybe they were trying to gain some of that female audience. ------------------ Youth is wasted on the young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 Slapdragon wrote: The only war / action shows to survive in the 1980s and 90s for more than a single season were MASH and China Beach Not true. Someone already mentioned the superlative Tour of Duty (set in Vietnam), which ran from '88 through '90 (three seasons). You can sometimes catch reruns on either TBS or TNT--I forget which. Awesome show. ------------------ New to Combat Mission? Visit CM Boot Camp at Combat Missions for tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 I totally forgot about Tour of Duty, although I was under the impression it got its 58 episodes (less and its hard to sell into syndication) and was cancelled for bad demographics, I looked through my notebook on military based televisions shows and I do not even have it logged. The question is does anyone remember if the show changed from its first season? Many shows do as the need to attract the female demographics asserts itself, for example they will add nurses (such as Black Sheep Squadron) or rehabilitate a former comic relief character into a strong female lead (Hot Lips in MASH although that was also in response to the actress playing the part wanting to change character concept when it appeared the show would last more than a decade). The change would have been giving the characters romantic interests, or adding a strong female character. Since I cannot even remember the show, it totally escapes me. If they did not, then a 3 season show is not to shabby for a war theme. Vietnam did have a lot to do with the end of many war / historical television shows, but what had more to do was a great increase in sophistication in how Nielsen tracked audiences during the sixties. At the start of the sixties, Nielsen merely counted people who watched the TV show and assumed that each mythical family was white, with Mom, Dad, and 2.3 kids all sitting down in front of the boob tube, that everyone made a median salary, Mom did the shopping, Dad bought auto parts, and the kids were idiots. Then research done in the sixties completely flipped that, and we began getting more than just a single rating number that represented percentage of households (HH), and instead could get pretty tough demos, connected with MRI / Mediamark research that told us what those demos bought. That is when we found out Mom and Dad were divorced, the kids had their own money, and from the point of advertising you needed to get the women to sell ad time to general product manufacturers. Interestingly enough you should be seeing a change today to older programming. How can you tell: look for ads for medicines. If you see a lot of those the program is targeting older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 YES Tour of Duty moved from the field to Saigon, and added female characters. It was the end of the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 However, they did kill off the female lead either at the beginning of season 3, or at the end of season 2, and then stuck it out in the bush a lot more. They were based at a more urban field base than during the first season, but, they weren't directly based within Saigon (just within driving distance). I figure it was a good move, since, how much variation could you get out in the bush? Since there were engagements in urban areas (especially during Tet) why not incorporate that? Also, they did occasionally go back to the US, to show first hand the kind of impressions and oppressions that they faced when they returned home. What killed 'Tour of Duty' was that both men and women in America were still unwilling to deal with Vietnam. They saw the movies because of their anti-war outlook (4th of July did better than any other Vietnam movie, barring Forrest Gump...). Blaming it on women alone is not fair. Men also weren't watching 'Tour of Duty'. Also, women have been a long ignored commodity. Basing programs and movies solely on one demographic is cutting into their profit margin. It is better for them to add a female (ala Pearl Harbor, that Sniper Movie, etc.) to get men AND women than just making it a total romance movie, or a total war movie. I would blame this on capitalism rather than female rights. Until a certain market is seen as viable, they will not be producing things en-masse for them. I don't think that Combat! was cancelled due to poor ratings or public outcry. The heat of Vietnam didn't reach its boiling point when it finally ended (after 5 years) in 1967. What killed the show, was that they were probably running out of innovative plot lines, and the actors probably wanted to do something new, or at least not Combat!. A very interesting thing that I noticed, was, that the show ran for 5 years, but, the war in the theatre only lasted 2 years!! Would an all male war show last? No, even in the 1960's, they had to occasionally add women into the plot (just about every episode) to give the cast some variety. If you want a historically accurate war show, especially during WWII, you will also constantly be having new actors coming in and dying off. The only reason that all female shows can survive, is that guys are willing to watch a bunch of hot chicks wander around the TV screen, in lieu of any plot whatsoever! It is vaguely possible, but, the plot will become so dry that it will lose any sense of interest. They can't fight a major battle every episode, nor could they follow the war sequentially (becuase that would put a limit to the run of the series). What Combat! did very well, was, to never state what year or month the episode took place in, one episode they are at the Bulge, then the next one they are fighting in Normandy. Without this, they would have ended the series in 1964. [This message has been edited by Major Tom (edited 02-12-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mikey D Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 One problem with sucessful war shows is they outrun the wars they're covering. Wasn't MASH about a mobile medical base during the three years of the Korean war? ...Except they never moved, and stuck around for a gruellingly long 10 years! A WWII post-D-Day TV show would be covering events lasting less than one year! That'd cause any network executive to hesitate. And I don't see the Rupert Murdock's Fox network doing a big budget Eastern Front weekly series anytime soon. At least when Vietnam-based China Beach ended (after 3 years?) they spend that last few episodes extending the timeline through war's end and back home again. I would've liked to have seen the guys in 'COMBAT!' after they had been back in civilian life for 10 years (1955?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 Any new WW2 show would be overkill for me, what with Dad's Army and Allo Allo. (!) Seriously, anyone wanting to satisfy their bloodlust can surely just bung a copy of SPR or Anzio in their video player?? Loads of WW2 video games as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipper Posted February 12, 2001 Share Posted February 12, 2001 > And I don't see the Rupert Murdock's Fox > network doing a big budget Eastern Front > weekly series anytime soon. Arrgh!!! No thanks! I've read the Rats War (that's the book on which that Enemy at the Gates movie will be based) - that was enough. Commander of 62nd division sniper school Sgt. Zaitsev referring to his partner during the combat mission "Anatolyushka"? He might have added "sweety"... Three sex scenes in a paperback about the battle of Stalingrad? Pff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted February 12, 2001 Author Share Posted February 12, 2001 Major Tom said: Also, women have been a long ignored commodity. Basing programs and movies solely on one demographic is cutting into their profit margin. It is better for them to add a female (ala Pearl Harbor, that Sniper Movie, etc.) to get men AND women than just making it a total romance movie, or a total war movie. Doing this might bring in a certain amount of each audience but what you bring in from one gender, you lose in another. The overwhelming majority of women do not like blood, guts, and military tactics and the overwhelming majority of men do not like mushy, gushy, romantic themes in shows. The reason MASH worked so well was because it wasn't a show about battles and it wasn't a story about love relationships either. It was a show about how these people dealt with the horrors of war through laughter. You can't please the war-hungry male crowd and the romance-hungry female crowd at the same time. If you want to do a romantic war drama or such, you have to take out the battles and the blood and guts stuff that appeals to the male crowd. If you want to do a show that will be composed of battles and infantry tactics, you have to throw out the romance. Having a bunch of nurses come aboard an island of pilots isn't gonna sell to the female crowd. I have to say though, those Black Sheep Squadron guys had to be the luckiest bunch of guys in the war. I'd risk my life up in the air if I could be stuck on an island with those beauties. ------------------ Youth is wasted on the young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted February 13, 2001 Share Posted February 13, 2001 as they said in futurama, the secret of television is that nothing changed after the show's over: ie, u cant marry off the single female lawyer star or viewers will rebel(by destroying the earth a la that ep of futurama) so you dont need to follow the war exactly. also, think of all the classics that never acknowledged the change of time: how many years were those guys in high school on happy days? ------------------ russellmz, Self-Proclaimed Keeper for Life of the Sacred Unofficial FAQ. "They had their chance- they have not lead!" - GW Bush "They had mechanical pencils- they have not...lead?" - Jon Stewart on The Daily Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob/1 Posted February 13, 2001 Share Posted February 13, 2001 Originally posted by Colonel_Deadmarsh: After having seen Saving Private Ryan and Thin Red Line, I can't wait for Enemy At The Gate. But wouldn't it be great to have a weekly show about some platoon and its adventures throughout different battles? I'm guessing the cost of such an enterprise would be too much to spend every week and that's why we never see anything like that. I suppose for it to work, you'd have to find a way around using tanks and showing destroyed cities to keep costs down. I've only seen a few episodes of Combat! but I think that's how they got around it. I'm sure with today's technology and a budget similar to Star Trek: The Next Generation, somebody could make something worthwhile week after week. Would be great to watch a cool show like that then plop myself in front of the computer and fire up CM. How many of you remember Combat! the T.V show its on the Canadian History channel every week day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntg84 Posted February 13, 2001 Share Posted February 13, 2001 The bastards at Encore Action channel took Combat off the air here in America. I saw every episode more than 10 times, but the show never got old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted February 13, 2001 Author Share Posted February 13, 2001 Major Tom said: Also, women have been a long ignored commodity. Basing programs and movies solely on one demographic is cutting into their profit margin. It is better for them to add a female (ala Pearl Harbor, that Sniper Movie, etc.) to get men AND women than just making it a total romance movie, or a total war movie. Doing this might bring in a certain amount of each audience but what you bring in from one gender, you lose in another. The overwhelming majority of women do not like blood, guts, and military tactics and the overwhelming majority of men do not like mushy, gushy, romantic themes in shows. The reason MASH worked so well was because it wasn't a show about battles and it wasn't a story about love relationships either. It was a show about how these people dealt with the horrors of war through laughter. You can't please the war-hungry male crowd and the romance-hungry female crowd at the same time. If you want to do a romantic war drama or such, you have to take out the battles and the blood and guts stuff that appeals to the male crowd. If you want to do a show that will be composed of battles and infantry tactics, you have to throw out the romance. Having a bunch of nurses come aboard an island of pilots isn't gonna sell to the female crowd. I have to say though, those Black Sheep Squadron guys had to be the luckiest bunch of guys in the war. I'd risk my life up in the air if I could be stuck on an island with those beauties. ------------------ Youth is wasted on the young. Um...hmmm...how did this get reposted? [This message has been edited by Colonel_Deadmarsh (edited 02-12-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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