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What about the Monster Maus?


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I know there has been alot of hype about the Sturmtiger and so on, so I went out over the weekend and bought a book on German armor black projects, It mostly was about the Sturmpanther, the Monster Maus and the Sturmtiger. And I relize that not a single damned Maus saw service let alone finish testing, BUT I was just wondering how many here would like to see a Maus in CM:BO or CM:BB. Apparently the varient that went onto early testing had two barrels, a 15cm KwK 44 gun and a 7.5cm KwK, now honestly who here would rather have a double barreld, 33 ft long tank in their arsenal? I mean THIRTY THREE FEET! You could run over a sherman, but any way I just want to know would you rather have:

Sturmtiger

Sturmpanther

Monster Maus

All Three

Give your feedback and thanks :D

-Niles "Fieldmarshall" Hirschi

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Well, I personally won't use them in games (agaisnt the AI) God knows a person better not use them against another player but I might play with it just to see what it can do against various other vehicles, etc... I really don't care if the game has it or not but it seems silly to include it if it never saw battle, but hey maybe it was fun for BTS. I don't mind that if that's the reason why plus it will be interesting to look at and blow **** up with but again not in an actual game. :rolleyes:

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I hope BTS doesn't waste their time on adding the Maus because who wants a tank that travels at 13 km/h (8.07 mph) and is so heavy that it would bogged in any weather. I'm guessing it would never make it to the frontlines in a QB.

I don't understand why anyone would want it or even purchase one because it would take several turns to move it around the battlefield.

I would rather like to see BTS add the M16 Multi gun motor carriage with four 50. cal MGs

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I'd love to have all three. smile.gif

Then I'd throw a couple of platoons of each one against some historic-accuracy-is-all-grognard. Too bad the IP play doesn't have videoconferencing so I wouldn't see his head blow up.

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I wonder what the ground pressure is on that thing... immobility like there's no tomorrow, but then again, with that armor and and armament who needs it? Still, if it did get in (which it won't) I'd take a spin just for kicks but not for a serious game.

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I read from somewhere that Maus wouldn't have too great ground pressure. In fact it would have been low . This due to very wide&long tracks.

Or maybe I'm remembering some other incoming supertank? Not sure. Wasn't there something even larger than maus at the drawing board? :confused:

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I am all for all of those! Brin 'em on!

Of course, this is CM though, so we need to make sure they are done accurately.

So, could someone answer some questions for me?

1. What is the ground pressure of the Maus?

2. What is its speed across a variety of terrain?

3. How much armor did it have on each facing, at what angle, and what level of quality?

4. What is the penetration and HE payload of the guns it was going to carry? Did they ahve specialized ammo?

5. What was the typical ammo loadout for a Maus or SturmPanther?

6. How much ammunition did each MG carry? How many MG did they have?

7. What was the tested muzzle velocity of the 15cm KwK 44 gun, using non-test ammunition?

BTW, please provide actual tested data, as it has been shown that "projected" numbers are never realized once production starts. Those dang engieers are always overly optimistic in the design phase!

Thanks!

Jeff Heidman

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View?u=1304366&a=9680208&p=40834099

The Maus represents Hitler's obsession with super heavies. This behemoth weighed in at 208 US tons and had max armour of 240mm. It mounted a 12.8cm/L55 gun. A co-axial 7.5cm/L36.5 gun was also to be included. Max speed was 20km/h (12.5 mph) which it attained during testing. Only two prototypes were completed and neither entered service.

This is definitely a dream (or nightmare) machine for players. At the scale of CM the appearance of such a beast would be a real shock to the opposite side. Its use would be restricted to firm ground and roads. Don't even think about crossing a bridge.

This beast seems to be very popular with many Forum members. The fact that it is totally beyond reason would be missed at the CM scale. The biggest problem it would have had is making an appearance anywhere the action is at the front. But once in action, where CM begins, it could be a challenge to use or face.

Nonetheless, IMHO it would be about as interesting as using or opposing a slightly mobile bunker; easy to avoid and/or flank and difficult to get into position.

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In terms of CM cost plus the new rarity factor, it just wouldn't be worth getting. Yeah, it would be fun to use the Maus or SturmTiger but it would ridiculously cost so much, and be impractical. Give me the Panthers Gs. They'll get the job done. Besides, we won't see the Maus in CM2. Hypothetical battles between SturmTigers and IS-3s sound fun.

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Maus-specs (from achtungpanzer.com)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Weight: 188000kg

Crew: 6 men

Engine: Daimler-Benz MB 509 / 12-cylinder / 1080hp (V1)

Daimler-Benz MB 517 Diesel / 12-cylinder / 1200hp (V2)

Fuel Capacity: 2650-2700 liters + 1500 liters in reserve tank

Speed: 13-20km/h

Range: Road: 160-190km

Cross-Country: 62km

Lenght: 10.09m

Width: 3.67m

Height: 3.63m

Armament: 128mm KwK 44 L/55 & 75mm KwK 44 L/36.5

1 x 7.92mm MG34

Ammo: 128mm - 55-68 rounds

75mm - 200 rounds

Armor (mm/angle): Turret Roof: 60/90

Gun Mantlet: 250/round

Front Turret: 220-240/round

Superstructure Roof: 50-100/9

Front Glacis Plate: 200/55

Hull Front: 200/35

Belly Plate Fore: 100/90

Side Turret: 200/30

Hull Side Upper: 180/0

Hull Side Lower: 100+80/0

Rear Turret: 200/15

Hull Rear Upper: 150/37

Hull Rear Lower: 150/30

Belly Plate Aft: 50/90

Penetration of Armor Plate at 30 degrees from Vertical.

Ammunition: 100m 500m 1000m 1500m 2000m 3000m 4000m

Panzergranate 40/43 223mm 212mm 200mm 189mm 178mm 156mm 140mm

Pzgr.40/43 (APCR) - Armor Piercing Composite Rigid (Tungsten Core)

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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I was quite sure I read in that long JS-3 thread that MadMatt was hot for both the Maus and JS-3, simply because they were cool! I don't know if things have changed since that post. There were rumors (from Jentz or Zaloga?) that a Maus did see combat, perhaps trading shot defending the town near the testing ground.

You PBEM players with your unit purchasing, you seem to take this so seriously! C'mon, let's have some fun testing the combat worthiness of one of Hitlers more outrageous creations.

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There was an amusing post a couple of months back about a grog playing against a gamey freak. The grog made sure his infantry was lined up just so according to their historical use, then got annihilated when the gamey freak's combined MG-Jeep and 8" guns and rockets came flying down.

Very amusing. I think if you want to be groggy and not use units like that, fine, but why should the rest of us be prohibited from experimenting a little bit just because you don't like it or because it wasn't used (though it was made in the era)?

If you don't want to play someone who picks ahistorical combinations, then set out some ground rules ahead of time and the first time you suspect your opponent might spoil the immersiveness or whatever the heck it is you are whining about, delete the PBEM files from your computer, block his email address and find someone who 'won't spoil it' for you.

Heck, if you want to be a perfect grog, then 90% of your troop purchases (as allies) should be green, and you should buy twice as much artillery (for Americans) as the current combined forces limitations allow. Your entire operating strategy should be to send out a platoon to make contact, then call down artillery for half an hour or so, then advance over the crunchy bits that are left. Wouldn't that be fun and 'accurate'?

Grogs who whine about including period units that didn't quite make it into combat are like the people who complain in movie theaters because people talk during the opening commercials or get up to leave before all the credits are finished. You are looking for something to whine about and taking this all WAY too seriously.

It's a game, people. Let people who don't want to be quite so anal have a little fun.

[ 06-26-2001: Message edited by: MrSpkr ]

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