CMplayer Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 I mean in CM purchase terms, if you put together all the ground forces deployed in the European/African theatre from 39-45 what size QB would it be? A million, trillion gadzillion points? Is there any way to make a really rough guess based on the average divisions? Just for starters, Germany's 81mm mortars alone (acc to JC's production figures of 75,000) would cost 2,025,000 points to buy in a QB. For equipment/nationalities not represented you could make approximations based on the stuff that's in the game. My [edited] guess would be, for the whole shebang, around 100,000,000,000 points. This doesn't include aircraft, of course, but does include all the assault boats. [ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: CMplayer ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen-x87H Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 QB would be anything but. CMs engine would have to be greatly expanded to allow for roughly 5 years and 9 months of fighting Just some raw estimates on the amount of turns hehe. 3016800 turns give or take a few, provided everything went along with history. But who knows maybe we would get some people who load up on gamey weapon systems and prolong the war Cant even imagine the size of the map on this one Gen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn-Sykes Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMplayer: ...what size QB would it be? A million, trillion gadzillion points? the whole shebang, around 100,000,000,000 points. This doesn't include aircraft, of course, but does include all the assault boats.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ladies & Gentlegrogs of the Court, I might overhear the grumblings of "Non Compos Mentis" from amongst the ranks... but before we pronounce sentence on this deranged... err... well-intentioned lunatic, let us ask him some simple questions... In arriving at your figure - did you include the men and vehicles (including assault boats) of all Axis Minor Combatants? Partisans? And what of Italy? Did you arrive at point values for Italian TO&E based on prices of currently available units? Perhaps you'd care to explain experience levels & ammo loadouts for this nearly inconceivable QB? We won't even get into your Red Army figures... Let us not rush to prematurely bandy about such terms as "crackpot"... [Edited so Mr Player knows I still think he's basically a good person] [ 10-10-2001: Message edited by: Fairbairn-Sykes Trench Knife ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted October 9, 2001 Author Share Posted October 9, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fairbairn-Sykes Trench Knife: And what of Italy? Did you arrive at point values for Italian TO&E based on prices of currently available units? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Just as an example, a 1941 Italian M13/40 could go for about 37 points, like a conscript H-39 Hotchkiss. See? I got it all worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Kruger Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 You got it all worked out? You simply can't ignore Japan and the Pacific Theatre when summarizing WWII... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maastrictian Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 Lets see... slightly less than 6 years of war, five reenforcement slots plus the onboard slot makes six. I think CMPlayer is on to something! --Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn-Sykes Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted October 9, 2001 Author Share Posted October 9, 2001 PARTISANS! Dang...okay round the figure up by about 1%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodimzew Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 Very interesting question, indeed. Not to forget the Dutch TO&E, Belgium, Norway... Could be a nice scenario, to seize the "Altmark" with british commandos on an norwegian Fjord (with special rules for assault boats and ropes)...Or to use the 28cm of the german pocket-battleship Luetzow in direct fire mode against advancing soviet infantry and tanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted October 9, 2001 Author Share Posted October 9, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Herr Kruger: You got it all worked out? You simply can't ignore Japan and the Pacific Theatre when summarizing WWII...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Did you ever see Japan or the Pacific in a Sgt. Rock Comic? Haunted Tank? Noooooo.... But I'm serious. I'll be back with the points for a German Armored division in a few moments... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 Do you add up the M16 Quad .50 trucks? Gyrene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rodimzew: Could be a nice scenario, to seize the "Altmark" with british commandos on an norwegian Fjord (with special rules for assault boats and ropes)...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Of course you are at liberty to design a scenario any way you wish, but you might find it of interest to know that neither commandos nor assault boats were used in the capture of the Altmark. An RN destroyer simply pulled up alongside and regular seamen swarmed aboard, calling out, "The Navy's here!" to the captured men held in bondage belowdecks. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMplayer: I mean in CM purchase terms, if you put together all the ground forces deployed in the European/African theatre from 39-45 what size QB would it be? A million, trillion gadzillion points?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You've got way too much spare time. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn-Sykes Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMplayer: See? I got it all worked out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> i see. what does a crack Matilda and 2 platoons of Long Range Desert Operatives in Chevy Trucks with twin mounted Vickers Ks go for again? A Company of Dutch Commandos? What about all the intangibles surrounding Über Finns? And you did take into account the Spanish "Blue Divisions" on the Eastern Front did you not? And you have no respect for Tito's Boys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 Nope, it is much lower than that LOL. I looked just at the Germans, not the other powers, to keep it simple. The total armor and gun force comes to around 16 million CM points. Slightly more than half of them guns, the rest armor, and the armor portion split roughly 50-50 between turreted tanks and everything else. Specifically - All turreted German tanks - 3.5 million All other AFV, SPA, light armor, etc - 3.75 million Towed PAK - 3.2 million Towed FLAK - 4.4 million Other light guns - 1.0 million The whole German infantry force would cost less than twice the above, or 32 million points. There might be 6 million points worth of HMG teams and the same in Schreck teams, perhaps 1/3rd that amount for LMGs and sharpshooters. And around 18 million for the plain infantry. All told, 50 million for the maneuver arms. But the bulk of the points are for artillery ammo, if you go by the shells produced and take the CM costs per module as the cost of expending that much ammo. This might give somewhat high figures for the arty portion, because some of the ammo was doubtless taken out without being fired (but aren't FOs in CM, come to that?). Mortar rounds alone equal the 50 million figure. Artillery above 150mm plus all rockets almost equals that again, at 43 million. But the enourmous bulk of the point cost of the whole force would be the 105mm and 150mm artillery models, worth 217 million and 165 million respectively. That's the divisional artillery. All told, the cost of the artillery rounds reaches 475 million CM points, almost 10 times as high as all maneuver forces combined, and 30 times all the tanks and towed guns. If you take the overall Allied casualties (all fronts, most of them in Russia of course) and divide them up into platoon sized bites, you can ask what each KOed Allied platoon encountered, in CM terms. The answer would be about 1 squad of infantry, 3/4 of an infantry team (split among AT, MG, etc), 1/8 of a towed gun, 1/16 of an AFV - and 1 full module of 150mm, 2 full modules of 105mm, and half a model of 81mm artillery fire. As the adage has it, artillery does the killing, armor runs around feeling important, and infantry does the dying. One can also see why the armor actually does have some real importance from all this, too. Because its primary function is to protect against all of that artillery fire. Not all of which is aimed half as well as it is in CM, to be sure. [ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: JasonC ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlife Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 did you guys figure in the discount for buying divisions instead of companies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 Does your therapist know that you're back on the computer again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted October 9, 2001 Author Share Posted October 9, 2001 But did you add in the trucks, motorcycles and kubelwagens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juardis Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 CMPlayer, who is this Fairbairn-Sykes Trench Knife and why are you proudly holding him? Sounds kinda incestuous. Screw the number of points, I want to know what would happen if the entire allied forces hugged the edge of the continent in their advance to Berlin. Or tank costs...do tank costs include the crews? If not, then if I were to use my crews like scouts and they died, the sum of the parts would be greater than the whole? And of course, what cost do you place on the generals? Surely one Patton is worth 3 DeGaulles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted October 9, 2001 Author Share Posted October 9, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juardis: CMPlayer, who is this Fairbairn-Sykes Trench Knife and why are you proudly holding him? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's my way of inducing him to HURRY UP AND SEND THAT SETUP fer Chrissakes. If he ever succeeds in defeating me on the field of battle I'll change my .sig. Or tank costs...do tank costs include the crews? If not, then if I were to use my crews like scouts and they died, the sum of the parts would be greater than the whole? You raise some very interesting points of analysis there. uhhh... I hand the microphone over to Mr. Jason Cawley for comments... By the way, the figures for the 1940 Panzer Division are coming very very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted October 9, 2001 Author Share Posted October 9, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fairbairn-Sykes Trench Knife: what does a crack Matilda and 2 platoons of Long Range Desert Operatives in Chevy Trucks with twin mounted Vickers Ks go for again? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Altogether, around 750 pts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanns Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 I can see it now....... "President Truman sir. Those gamey Russians are making a last minute flag rush towards Berlin" "Dammit, Ike! How many points do we left to spend on Elite .50 cal Jeeps? If we spend all our points on Elite Jeeps and hug the Atlantic coast we'll capture those darned victory flags before those Red bastards do." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMplayer: Did you ever see Japan or the Pacific in a Sgt. Rock Comic? Haunted Tank? Noooooo.... ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The Haunted Tank did go to the Pacific on several occasions - I remember Glanzman did the artwork for one or two stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn-Sykes Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMplayer: PARTISANS! Dang...okay round the figure up by about 1%.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> well, 1% of <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>100.000.000.000<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> is a fairly significant number of men... to say nothing of the assault boats one could buy with this kind of funding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn-Sykes Posted October 10, 2001 Share Posted October 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMplayer: That's my way of inducing him to HURRY UP AND SEND THAT SETUP fer Chrissakes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> dear expatriate, expect one 1000pt attack (i'll be the one digging in this time) using Fionn's Recon Rules to appear in your mailbox soon. this is just an aperitif to our forthcoming Aegean Challenge ©... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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