What sort of "mouse" are you guys using??

[ARCHANGEL]

Gentlemen,

Early in life I played a lot of sort-of serious tennis...having reached middle life I have been rewarded with "tennis elbow", which has now been exaserbated to the point of approaching frequent injections(not yet begun) to remedy it. I mention this because, as I sit here and play hours of CMBO, I find that my wrist and elbow rebel, in a significant way, when I play even short games...in the intirm I have taken to wearing braces for both...but it occurs to me that a new mouse for my computer might aid somewhat in relief of my situation...

Since CMBO is so "mouse" intensive, I am seeking your collective advice on what type of mouse you all use...even though my computer is reasonably big time, the mouse is a $9.99 one I got because I didn't like the more expensive wheel mouse I had before this one...anyway...are the ergo-designed ones any good?? how about "optical" ones??

My CM time is severely limited until I can get this all fixed...and I am hoping a better mouse will go a long way toward that end...

Many Thanks,

(painfully)

Archangel

[Abbott]

I gave up using a mouse years ago. Trackball all the way here.

[sbg2112]

It'll be interesting to see if anyone thinks one mouse design would be better than others....and in the end, it's gonna be such a subjective thing....

But don't forget about other options -- trackball (already mentioned), trackpoint, or maybe not even using a mouse at all. Not as intuitive, but it seems like you could navigate CM pretty well with just the keyboard.....

Maybe somebody could tie a voice recognition engine into CM so you could say things like "Sgt. Williams, move 30 meters northeast." (Would probly work best complemented by tacAI changes to choose the best waypoints....but that's a whole 'nother topic.)

[Bullethead]

Logitech TrackMan Marble

Trackballs are the only way to go, as was known back in the early 80s after extensive trials of all types of pointing devices including mice, touch screens, light pens, etc. These trials were conducted at the behest of the Great God IBM, who was going to put the winning technology on the 1st generation of PCs, and in those High and Far-Off Days of Gods and Heroes, when Big Blue said "Jump," the whole rest of the industry said "How high?"

The trackball won the competition. It was the most ergonomic, the least fatiguing, used the least desk space, and was the least prone to FOD problems. So everybody who was "into computers" back then (which was only the computer grogs due to the lack of serious internet and the newness of personal computing--everybody else was "into stereos") was looking forward to having a trackball.

But then Macs came out, and Macs had mice. Mac advertising relied heavily on its mouse as a way of making computers easier for the unwashed masses to use. But the 1st generation of Macs were such dogmeat that they didn't even have a printer at first, so anybody interested in more than drawing pretty pictures on their monitor still wanted a PC. But the unwashed masses liked the mouse thing and demanded a mouse on the PC. And because in those High and Far-Off Days of Gods and Heroes the masses were totally unwashed as to computers, they didn't know something better was all set to go.

So The Great And Powerful IBM was humbled--caving in to the demands of the lowborn, it introduced PCs with mice instead of trackballs, as had been originally planned. And once the Mighty IBM said "Let There Be Mice," that put the kibosh on all other types of pointing devices for a long, sad, and carpal tunnel syndrome-inducing time. Not until a full 10 years had passed, during which the worship of Big Blue gradually declined, did a few trackballs dare to venture onto the market.

So here you have the 1st and best reason to hate Macs I'm thinking about a class action suit against Apple for knowingly inflicted mouse-related carpal tunnel syndrome on the masses for its own profit.

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-Bullethead

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria.

[GriffinCheng+]

Mouse. I am a left-hand user. There is NO TRACKBALL avaiable here for us left-handed. too bad.

On PC, I am using IBM mouse which comes with a eraser-like "scroll point" device.

For my Powerbook, I don't like the trackpad and use their optical Pro Mouse.

Griffin.

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"When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI."

"Can't get enough Tank?"

Get the CMSOD at Combat Missing Command Post (CMCP) at http://www.angelfire.com/games3/CMCP/

[GriffinCheng+]

Well this instantly reminds me of a recent UserFriendly series, a wise guy removes all the keyboards from the techie and support personnel to force them using voice input. You will see funny things happen.

"Now the VR software only accepts my voice"

"Try it"

"D E L * DOT *"

"Wait the boss wants to ENTER the room"

Griffin.

Originally posted by sbg2112:

Maybe somebody could tie a voice recognition engine into CM so you could say things like "Sgt. Williams, move 30 meters northeast." (Would probly work best complemented by tacAI changes to choose the best waypoints....but that's a whole 'nother topic.)

------------------

"When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI."

"Can't get enough Tank?"

Get the CMSOD at Combat Missing Command Post (CMCP) at http://www.angelfire.com/games3/CMCP/

[gunnergoz]

I've been using a Kensington Expert Mouse for several years. It has really been better for me than a conventional mouse--takes up less space, always where you need it to be, less fuss cleaning it, etc.

Be mindful that the trackball will tend to keep your hand and wrist in the same spot and angle than a mouse might, so you must give yourself frequent stretch breaks.

[Alexander]

MS Intellimouse here. A joy to use but I had to trash my Lotus programs, like 1-2-3 and WordPro. It seems the optical mouse caused strange graphical corruptions. Not in Microsoft applications, however. No compatibility problems there.

So I shelled out 100 bucks for Excel. Bill Gates and his company are a piece of work.

[Gunny Bunny]

Mine looks more like a RAT

[109 Gustav]

Originally posted by Bullethead:

So here you have the 1st and best reason to hate Macs I'm thinking about a class action suit against Apple for knowingly inflicted mouse-related carpal tunnel syndrome on the masses for its own profit.

True, they aren't as ergonomic as trackballs, but studies showed that they were easier for people who hadn't used computers to learn. After all, it is pretty basic, just point in the right direction. So Apple did have a good reason for including mice with it's computers, they wanted the computer to be something that any idiot could master.

What do I use? I hate it, but I use the infamous "hockey puck" that came with my iMac. About the only good thing I can say about it is it doesn't need cleaning very often. It's awful for precision sliding in Photoshop or shootemup games, and if your hand gets sweaty the mouse slides around way too much. If red salmon go up to $1.05 a pound this summer, I'm getting a good two button optical mouse.

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[This message has been edited by 109 Gustav (edited 03-26-2001).]

[Victor Semensi]

I too have suffered from wrist pain, mine was due to a poorly designed mouse I used for years on a Digital computer at my old job. I now use a Microsoft Intellimouse which helped a little. The almost magical cure for me was the purchase of gel filled wrist rests for both the keyboard and the mouse pad. Even with the new mouse my wrist would start to hurt badly after about 30 min. of use. Now with the pads I've put in 6-8 hour sessions with absolutely no pain. The mouse gel pad feels like its massaging my wrist as I move the mouse around. I don't know how much they will help with your elbow but I only spent about 20 bucks total for both pads, the best money I've spent on my computer in years.

[Ellros]

I've been using a Logitech Trackball for the past 4 or 5 years. I use a wristpad to support my wrist though. The combination has worked really well.

[Subvet]

Logitech Marble (trackball) all the way. These things are so much better than a mouse! I absolutely can't stand using a mouse now. I took a class at the local community college where I had to use a mouse. Holy crap, did that ever suck!

Your arm and wrist remain still while you use the Marble. The only things that move are your fingers to push the buttons down and your thumb to move the trackball. I can use these for hours on end without any discomfort at all. Ten minutes with a mouse and I'm looking for pain killers. The fact that it takes up almost no desk space (you can lay it on your leg if you want) is just icing on the cake. They are also convenient to use with laptops, and there are wireless versions now. I can't think of any reason to NOT use one.

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Craiger

All your victory flag are belong to me

[Guest wwb_99]

Well, pointing devices are more a matter of personal taste. Personally, I use the Logitech Trackman Marble (the thumb-balled kind). But many people cannot deal with its configuration. For lefthanders, there are some trackballs with the ball in the middle, and the buttons are configurable making them ambidexterous.

The main problem I have had with trackballs is keeping them clean. Do not even think of playing and eating at the same time. Opticals are better on that front, but much more expensive and are a liability when it comes to 'twitch' games, due to slight lag.

WWB

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Check out the Dogs of War

[bigmac@work]

Hi, thought I'd throw my two cents in. Like GriffinCheng+, I'm also a leftie (please don't hate me). The "more ergonomic" models are quite the opposite for me. Not telling you mine is better than anyone elses, just that I now use a MS Intellimouse Optical. It's great for navigation, since it's a 5 button mouse with a wheel. Not to mention the fact that it's ball-less (hehe, reminds me of a few people), but I couldn't tell you how many mouses (mice?) I've thrown away because the ball and rollers eventually required near daily cleaning. Victors suggestion is also right on base. A wrist support of some type (especailly gel filled) will aid your physical comfort significantly. If you're interested, email me and I'll forward an info sheet for setting up your work place, oops, I mean play area in an ergonomic fashion. Actually Arch, proper mousing will preclude the use of your elbow.... Now, if they'd just come out with an ergonomic left-handed mouse and throttle stick (for times I lose my sanity and drift back to my flight sims... ), I'd be a happy camper! Good luck with your ailing elbow. Hope you get the info your looking for Archangel.

Bigmac out!

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[Radar]

I'm a leftie and never used a track ball. I really like having the scroll key.

[aka_tom_w]

I wondered when this issue might come up here

I had tennis elbow from carrying the weight of my laptop bag and have on and off symptoms of CTS Carpel Tunnel syndrome in my wrists from being addicted not only to CM but also to "real" work on my laptop all day at work and again at home at night in e-mail.

I use a BIG 4 button Logitech optical mouse with mouse man scroll wheel and it feels very good in my hand.I mean I really LOVE this mouse, its big and blue and the logitech logo lights up, it has a button for 3 fingers with a scroll wheel in the middle finger and a button for the thumb on the side!

Tennis elbow and getting addicted to your computer and playing CM is a BIG issue.(really)

Both my elbows were so sore I could not lift my laptop or anything over about 2 lbs about 7 months ago.

I wondered who else here might have tennis elbow?

ITs real and its a nuisiance, be very careful and watch out for carpel tunnel syndrome as well.

good luck, the track ball is also a VERY good idea, my wife swears by hers.

-tom w

[Panzer Leader]

I'm a leftie but I use the Microsoft intelli-eye in my right hand. I love that mouse -- it never gets caught and moves oh so smooth...

[GriffinCheng+]

I am surprised to see pointing device could generate so much interests here.

Well, as for mechanical mouse, you need constant cleaning the ball and other moving parts where dust can easily clog them -- worse if you eat while play.

I have been using optical mouse for years (except the current IBM mouse) which uses special pad. MS IntelliEye is great for no pad is needed but the 5-buttons version is kinda large for me and it uses 2 LED to track movement. If you can stand for 1 button, Apple Pro Mouse is way better and is very stylish too.

Unfortuately in general, it is the mouse button goes out first -- especially you play button-intensive games like Diablo II, Dungeon Keeper or any RTS.

Griffin.

------------------

"When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI."

"Can't get enough Tank?"

Get the CMSOD at Combat Missing Command Post (CMCP) at http://www.angelfire.com/games3/CMCP/

[Bullethead]

109 Gustav said:

True, they aren't as ergonomic as trackballs, but studies showed that they were easier for people who hadn't used computers to learn.

I've never agreed with that. First, the aforementioned competition said otherwise IIRC. Second, all kinds of military equipment and video arcade games that came out about that time and somewhat before used trackballs and nobody had trouble with them. Remember "Missile Command"?

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-Bullethead

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria.

[Leonidas]

I use a Razer Boomslang. I'm not wild about the shape, but there's a noticeable difference in precision. I use an extra-coarse mouse pad, which helps prevent slipping. Finally, I've got a wrist rest, which takes some getting used to, but is really necessary for long term mouse use.

I'm surprised at all the people using trackballs. I hadn't realized they were so popular, or that their users would be so loyal. I have enough problems with gunk getting into my mouse as it is, and I carefully wash my hands before computer use and never eat at the computer. Isn't there a major gunk-up problem with track balls, or did I miss some technological breakthrough?

[Canuck]

I would expect this post to be in a FPS forum where precision was of utmost importance. I have microsoft mouse with the "wheelie" and before I had an $8 mouse (CDN for gods sake!) and I could play well with both of them

I'm pretty adaptable i guess

[Wolfe]

Originally posted by GriffinCheng+:

I am a left-hand user. There is NO TRACKBALL avaiable here for us left-handed. too bad.

I use the Kensington Orbit trackball. It's perfectly symmetrical, so it should work fine for lefties (unless I'm missing something).

gunnergoz wrote:

I've been using a Kensington Expert Mouse for several years.

Yup. I love my Orbit. Whenever I have to use a regular mouse, I get cramps from the death-grip I seem to put on it. The only bad thing about using the trackball is when I have to go back to a 'regular' mouse.

Leonidas wrote:

Isn't there a major gunk-up problem with track balls, or did I miss some technological breakthrough?

There's a raised ridge underneath the ball on the Orbit that collects most of the gunk and debris. Just pop out the ball whenever it gets a little 'sticky' in the movement, wipe off the raised ring, and pop the ball back in. Easy. Although I do have to clean off the rollers eventually when the ball starts to slip. That's no fun, but you only have to do it every so often.

- Chris

[Wolfpack]

Originally posted by Bullethead:

109 Gustav said:

I've never agreed with that. First, the aforementioned competition said otherwise IIRC. Second, all kinds of military equipment and video arcade games that came out about that time and somewhat before used trackballs and nobody had trouble with them. Remember "Missile Command"?

Good lord, you should see the trackball the military has on the MCS computer system I was on. Talk about a complete pain in the rear. It was built into the keyboard and the ball was positioned so badly in respect to the buttons that you pretty much had to use two hands, or accept having your entire arm from the elbow down cramping up after 2 minutes. I use a Logitech 3-button trackball now with the thumb moved ball and love it...until the cat decides to curl up around it anyway.

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Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.

[GriffinCheng+]

Wolfe: I hate to mention but the keyword is "HERE" which means "Hong Kong"! See your quote of mine?

All trackballs by ergonomics are right-handed.

------------------

"When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI."

"Can't get enough Tank?"

Get the CMSOD at Combat Missing Command Post (CMCP) at http://www.angelfire.com/games3/CMCP/