Freak Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 Should MG 42 HMG be able to run? As it is now in CM the MG 42 HMG cannot run. Its fastest mode of mobility is the move command. In Saving Private Ryan there is a scene toward the end in Ramelle where two American soldiers "run" with their 30 caliber MG across a road up into a rubbled out building to take better position against the incoming German forces. I have the Film on DVD and though I haven't seen it in a while I distinctly remember this. First is this realistic to run with a 30 caliber MG and some ammo with 2 soldiers? The MG42 interestingly weighs only 23 and 3/4 pounds. The weight of the tripod is unkown in this book of reference. At 23 and 3/4 pounds for the MG 42, lots of ammo and a tripod weighing in at lets say 20 pounds (I do not know the weight but I am taking and educated guess), this is divided among 6 soldiers. Having a look at a Panzershreck team shows that 2 soldiers handle 1 panzershreck ( 20 and 1/2 pounds) and 5 (7 pound hollow charged rounds) amounting to 35 pounds. This again handled by 2 soldiers. So anyway, I am trying to figure out if it is reasonable for a MG team like the MG42 to be able to run for lets say 1/2 a turn, or 1/4 of a turn, before tiring and not being able to run any further. I *feel* that it is entirly plausible that a MG team of six would be able to run at for a *short* period of time, to escape certain death or to get into postion quickly. My *feeling* is that maybe the MG HMG 42 should have the ability to run for 20 seconds or so with the six man team and the tripod and then tire. Maybe the LMG should have this ability too considering that its only a two man team, the bipod being only an extenstion connected to the end of the LMG. As for U.S. MG's, I do not have any info stats on U.S. military info. Any thoughts? [ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: Freak ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windopaene Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 Do a Search or somefink! Please god, not again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshandorf Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Please! Nooooooooo! Not again! My eyes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 Ah yes, where would we be without SPR, the last word on historical accuracy? Spur of the Moment Complaining. Why can't LMG42's run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 What the others are trying to communicate, is that it's the ammo that slows the team down. They have lots and lots of it. The MG itself would be no problem. Actually the real big debate was about the LMG 42 which can't run either. (For the same reason.) Actually I agree with you. Just about any team should be able to go at least a bit faster for at least a short while. But it's also a coding issue and not easily done. Dont make me explain, I can't and won't. But in any case, BTS has stated clearly that there will be no change. -- edited to remove a really big secret [ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: Jarmo ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argie Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 Only if manned by Finns Don't be so hard with the guy! The topic had not arose in almost three months!!! [ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: argie ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mensch Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 ROFTL.. noooooOOoOOooooo I hope andreas does not see this!!! LOL.. sorry, if I seem so taken out.. tis been discussed to no end. but I agree.. MG units should be able to run at least , yes?? ok .50 cal not but..the lighter stuff like the LMG team it gets to run in squads but not alone.. feh Andreas I wave my private parts in your argument!! LONG LIVE RUNNING MG TEAMS!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fieldmarshall Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 Oh not this post again...cant you just go crawl in a hole> And to answere your Question: A HMG team has quite a bit of ammo-extral barrels\the metal boxes the belts of ammo(or Drums if its a MG 34) Also a heavy machine gun has a mounting for the gun a large mounting...here is the light MG Notice the BI-POD: Now the Heavy Machine gun: Notice the large pod it is mounted on..(HEAVY there for slowing the crew down..oh and thanks to the desert rats for the image) -Field LIGHT MACHINE GUN!!! [ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: Fieldmarshall ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Johnson-- Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 The MG-42 is in a number of axis squads therefor can run. I think I don't like that the American .30cal A4 or something should be able to run. It had a bipod and was designed for quick deployments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr. Johnson-<THC>-: The MG-42 is in a number of axis squads therefor can run. I think I don't like that the American .30cal A4 or something should be able to run. It had a bipod and was designed for quick deployments.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah, some guys run with one in _Doctor Strangelove_ (or maybe it was a later model weapon...same difference) Also, since there is an LMG in normal German rifle squads, I don't see why an LMG team can't run. It doesn't even have much ammo. --Rett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it! This is me laffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PawBroon Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 Anyone of you Boardees noticed that the Search function ALWAYS work for Aitken? That guy must be a lucky bastard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMplayer: Also, since there is an LMG in normal German rifle squads, I don't see why an LMG team can't run. It doesn't even have much ammo. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It does have quite an ammo load. When in squad, the other squadmembers help carrying the ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 [Edit: never mind, I just saw Aitken's links, saving me the agony of doing a search. thx Jarmo, Aitken et. al.] [ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: CMplayer ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PawBroon: Anyone of you Boardees noticed that the Search function ALWAYS work for Aitken? That guy must be a lucky bastard...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think that twit mentioned somewhere that he has compiled an archive of the links to various topics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangorn Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo: It does have quite an ammo load. When in squad, the other squadmembers help carrying the ammo.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Something I would like to see answered since the first mg42lmg can't run thread: why the escort squad (7 men, 2 lmg) can run and the two men team can't. The escort squad has 80 units of ammo, while the two men team has 25. How much ammo the gunner can carry when the team is down to one man? 9 units, which means the assistent have 16 units. In the escort squad, 5 guys have 12.4 units of mg42 ammo, their own weapons and more 40 units of ammo and they can run! Something is wrong here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted July 20, 2001 Author Share Posted July 20, 2001 Ok, thanks for the responces. I didnt realize there was such a huge discussion about the matter. I didn't base my guess on running MG teams on Saving Private Ryan as much as basing it onthe fact that the LMG 42 and the HMG 42 weigh about the same as a shreck. So I was trying to understand why one could not run with one, considering that the HMG is a six man team giving plenty of free hands to carry the other stuff including the tripod. But I see that it is answered in more then full for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freak: Ok, thanks for the responces. I didnt realize there was such a huge discussion about the matter. I didn't base my guess on running MG teams on Saving Private Ryan as much as basing it onthe fact that the LMG 42 and the HMG 42 weigh about the same as a shreck. So I was trying to understand why one could not run with one, considering that the HMG is a six man team giving plenty of free hands to carry the other stuff including the tripod. But I see that it is answered in more then full for the most part.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Allow me to add something. The German Bundeswehr uses the nearly identical MG-3. A Heavy MG is the gun, a tripod and a lot of ammo, and it's is intended as a stationary defense weapon. No, you can NOT run with it. The light MG-3 (it's the same weapon, but without the heavy tripod) is for combat support. It's the gun, a second barrel and the ammo. With the gun on the shoulder, a ammo case in the left hand and some ammo belts around the neck it's possible to run. I was allowed to test it for several times. It's possible, even when you wear your gas mask. Of course you don't make a marathon with it, but I guess it can be compared with a running Bazooka team...100m, then it looses a lot of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted July 21, 2001 Share Posted July 21, 2001 The tripod weighed 41 lbs. If they are moving the assembled gun they are thus team-carrying a 60+ lb object. And if you haven't noticed, the fp of the HMG team is 3 times as high as a LMG, plus it has almost four times the ammo in CM shots. They are thus carrying about 12 times the ammo. LMGs can run, because there is one in every squad and sometimes two. If you want running LMGs buy panzergrenadiers - they get 6 of them per platoon. US MMGs have medium speed, which is not running but is faster than "slow". They also have only 1/2 the fp of an HMG-42 plus only 2/3rds the ammo, so they have only 1/3rds as much cumulative fp. Somehow I doubt that is because each bullet is dumber; I suspect there are fewer of them. Of course, HMG-42 teams are also carrying extra barrels, asbestos gloves to change them while hot, wrenches for when they get stuck, yadda yadda... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fieldmarshall Posted July 21, 2001 Share Posted July 21, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scipio: Allow me to add something. The German Bundeswehr uses the nearly identical MG-3. A Heavy MG is the gun, a tripod and a lot of ammo, and it's is intended as a stationary defense weapon. No, you can NOT run with it. The light MG-3 (it's the same weapon, but without the heavy tripod) is for combat support. It's the gun, a second barrel and the ammo. With the gun on the shoulder, a ammo case in the left hand and some ammo belts around the neck it's possible to run. I was allowed to test it for several times. It's possible, even when you wear your gas mask. Of course you don't make a marathon with it, but I guess it can be compared with a running Bazooka team...100m, then it looses a lot of fun.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah--my combat guns book has that in it, the Germans use it..it isnt exaxctly the same..it has a more reliable feeder..and a better cooling system..and is a little lighter than the MG 1942 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Young Posted July 22, 2001 Share Posted July 22, 2001 I can run with an MG 42, a box of ammo, and 200 rounds around my neck. It is not fun, and the ammo was wood tipped blank, but I could keep up with the rest of my squad. A four man team is also able to carry an MG 42 on tripod with all ammo at a run for about 25 yards at a time. It is much harder to do because if someone mis-steps everyone goes ass over tea kettle. E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted July 27, 2001 Author Share Posted July 27, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eric Young: I can run with an MG 42, a box of ammo, and 200 rounds around my neck. It is not fun, and the ammo was wood tipped blank, but I could keep up with the rest of my squad. A four man team is also able to carry an MG 42 on tripod with all ammo at a run for about 25 yards at a time. It is much harder to do because if someone mis-steps everyone goes ass over tea kettle. E<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hi Eric, Is ths true, you have run with the MG 42? If this is true, I still hold my belief that a MG 42 team should be able to run for lets say 8 seconds or so maybe 10 and the tire and walk. I just dont see why they cant run when the heat is on. Perhaps a loss of some ammo would be appropriate to show the quickness of the team booking out of their position in the heat of fire. Leave a few boxes of ammo behind, but the MG team can still book out of there if it gets hellish. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freak: Hi Eric, Is ths true, you have run with the MG 42? If this is true, I still hold my belief that a MG 42 team should be able to run for lets say 8 seconds or so maybe 10 and the tire and walk. I just dont see why they cant run when the heat is on. Perhaps a loss of some ammo would be appropriate to show the quickness of the team booking out of their position in the heat of fire. Leave a few boxes of ammo behind, but the MG team can still book out of there if it gets hellish. Just my 2 cents.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Current engine limitation. Would be realistic to have it, but can't be done. That's what BTS said in one of the earlier threads on the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted July 27, 2001 Author Share Posted July 27, 2001 Thank grod that my question is answered. So maybe will will see this in CMII. Thanks again Germanboy. Your timing is impeccable. [ 07-27-2001: Message edited by: Freak ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiborhead Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 Man, Rambo was able to run around with an M-60 in one hand, and an AK-47 in the other, and... oh wait, we're talking about realism here. You're right though, I'd like to see a MG team able to run one of these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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