TeAcH Posted June 13, 2001 Share Posted June 13, 2001 I don't know if this has been asked before but here goes: If a tank can push another destroyed/abandoned/knocked out vehicle out of its way when it needs to, how come that same tank can't collide with, and push a bogged and then immobilized vehicle out of a jam? I'm obviously not talking about those vehicles that are immobilized due to damage, but those that are stuck in the mud/snow etc. Here's an example: A halftrack gets bogged in wet ground then becomes immobilized. A medium tank in the area, is moved onto a collision course. When it collides (simulating a push) with the halftrack, the HT has a chance it will go back to bogged status. The tank also faces a very slight chance of getting bogged itself. Seems like a fair request, although I know efforts are underway to get CM2 ready, how about a consideration for a patch on this down the road if the idea is appealing. Thanks. I know, I know, shaddup and get back to work on the BER w/secure mode. Regards, TeAcH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted June 13, 2001 Share Posted June 13, 2001 TeAcH, I think that vehicles that become immobilized after being bogged either have thrown tracks, flat tires or some other sort of damage caused by trying to unbog, so even if they are pushed out of the way they are still damaged. I do agree that if a vehicle is bogged it should be allowed to be rescued by a bump from another vehicle. Gyrene [ 06-12-2001: Message edited by: Gyrene ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yank Posted June 13, 2001 Share Posted June 13, 2001 I couldn't agree with you more.I have often wished I could do exactly that same thing.It's one option that might have saved my butt a couple of times.Maybe it will be in CM2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted June 13, 2001 Share Posted June 13, 2001 I have done this for real with an M35 truck; another M35 was stuck up to the axles in water and mud. Our attempts to use the winch to recover the vehicle failed, so my sergeant major ordered me to tap the other truck with ours. It worked like a charm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted June 13, 2001 Share Posted June 13, 2001 The only problem i see with this is CM covers battlefeild actions. I doubt very much anyone was going to risk loseing 2 tanks & crews by attracting the fire of every OPFOR wpn in LOS when they notice whats going on . Regards, John Waters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeAcH Posted June 13, 2001 Author Share Posted June 13, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I have done this for real with an M35 truck; another M35 was stuck up to the axles in water and mud. Our attempts to use the winch to recover the vehicle failed, so my sergeant major ordered me to tap the other truck with ours. It worked like a charm. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> And I bet it only took a few minutes to dislodge the truck, clearly something that could happen in a multiturned game. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> The only problem i see with this is CM covers battlefeild actions. I doubt very much anyone was going to risk loseing 2 tanks & crews by attracting the fire of every OPFOR wpn in LOS when they notice whats going on <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hmmm. I respectfully disagree. Certainly under fire you wouldn't want to risk something like that. But then again, you might. It depends. In a recent battle of mine, I had a mortar carrier stuck in the muck near my entry zone. The main body of my force moved on and I was bummed that I had to leave it behind. When reinforcements showed up, I had a few tanks back there, out of harm's way, that sure could have pulled, or pushed, that bad boy free - or at least made an attempt. You see, the thing is, it is realistic (or so I think) and CM is "realistic" or at least modelled that way. Therefore, it ought to be in. Regards, TeAcH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumvir Posted June 13, 2001 Share Posted June 13, 2001 That's strange... I've done exactly that to unbog tanks when playing Drive to Mortain. <spoiler> . . . . . . . . . <break/> . . . . Okay, far enough. Since the road in Drive to Mortain is potential deathtrap (playing the Germans, I wiped out the entire -- I mean, _entire_ Allied force at the first bocage boundary), I go offroad as soon as feasible. When my Shermans bogged, I had my commander's M5 push them out of the way, and they magically unbogged themselves. Didn't work for immobilized units, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shandorf Posted June 13, 2001 Share Posted June 13, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PzKpfw 1: The only problem i see with this is CM covers battlefeild actions. I doubt very much anyone was going to risk loseing 2 tanks & crews by attracting the fire of every OPFOR wpn in LOS when they notice whats going on . Regards, John Waters<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I have had tanks immoblize beyond LOS so this really isn't an issue all the time. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted June 13, 2001 Share Posted June 13, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Triumvir: That's strange... I've done exactly that to unbog tanks when playing Drive to Mortain. <spoiler> . . . . . . . . . <break/> . . . . Okay, far enough. Since the road in Drive to Mortain is potential deathtrap (playing the Germans, I wiped out the entire -- I mean, _entire_ Allied force at the first bocage boundary), I go offroad as soon as feasible. When my Shermans bogged, I had my commander's M5 push them out of the way, and they magically unbogged themselves. Didn't work for immobilized units, though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I have read other accounts of this "push the bogged unit with another good unit" technique has actually worked in the game. I have never done it myself, but it seems to work OR the accounts that were posted were just coincidence in that the bogged unit may have unbogged anyway without the push. BUT there are at least a few accounts of successfully pushing bogged vehilces with non-bogged vehilces in the game. -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coe Posted June 13, 2001 Share Posted June 13, 2001 I think it would be useful to push immobilized vehicles to other positions where they might be able to use their weapon i.e. to cover a retreat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted June 13, 2001 Share Posted June 13, 2001 I've seen abandoned and eliminated tanks and armored cars be pushed off of bridges. I've wanted to push a stuck HT out of the mud once, but the game ended before I could. One wonders if one vehicle can get stuck, so might another trying to push the first one out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeAcH Posted June 14, 2001 Author Share Posted June 14, 2001 Yeah. I totally agree. Pushing an otherwise good vehicle out of the muck seems plausible to me. I'd like to hear from anyone else who has had verifiable success at pushing a bogged vehicle. If this truly works, couldn't it also be fixed to allow a push of one that is stuck and undamaged? TeAcH [ 06-13-2001: Message edited by: TeAcH ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted June 14, 2001 Share Posted June 14, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PzKpfw 1: The only problem i see with this is CM covers battlefeild actions. I doubt very much anyone was going to risk loseing 2 tanks & crews by attracting the fire of every OPFOR wpn in LOS when they notice whats going on . Regards, John Waters<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The Germans made Bergepanzers just so they could extract vehicles under fire. The biggest kind of work done by them, like attaching tow cables, is beyond CMs scope but it does show that vehicles were actually recovered under enemy observation/fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer_Meyer Posted June 14, 2001 Share Posted June 14, 2001 There was a AAR by Fionn where his opponents (forgot the AAR name or the opponents name) had a imobolized Sherman out of LOS. So Fionn's opponent decided to use his other Sherman to push it to possition to fire on Fionn's forces. And what do ya know. It worked. Fionn described it (to my best recollection), seeing a imobolized Sherman being moving, but seconds later the Other sherman pushing it appeared. The imobolized sherman had some los, but was KOed later. I found that very interesting. I'll try to find the AAR, might be on CMHQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted June 14, 2001 Share Posted June 14, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by panzerwerfer42: The Germans made Bergepanzers just so they could extract vehicles under fire. The biggest kind of work done by them, like attaching tow cables, is beyond CMs scope but it does show that vehicles were actually recovered under enemy observation/fire.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm not talking about what ya'll did or didn't do in CM etc. I'm speaking of tanks breaking off offensive action under fire to go push a vehichle from behind at the same time hopeing they don't bog down & or get hit themselves. & yes the Germans used an Bergepanther etc but; I disagree they made it specificly to recover tanks on the battlefeild during a ongoing battle. Most here have read of efforts to recover damaged or mired Tiger 1's & Panther's under fire I bet, if so then your familiar that the sucess rate was about nill and usualy resulted in more casualties. Regards, John Waters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted June 14, 2001 Share Posted June 14, 2001 BTS has stated that pushing a bogged vehicle does nothing whatsoever to the chances of getting unbogged. Except maybe if you'd push the bogged vehicle from open ground to pavement or something.. Or it could be the first time to see a tank bogged in pavement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted June 14, 2001 Share Posted June 14, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> There was a AAR by Fionn where his opponents (forgot the AAR name or the opponents name) had a imobolized Sherman out of LOS. So Fionn's opponent decided to use his other Sherman to push it to possition to fire on Fionn's forces. And what do ya know. It worked. Fionn described it (to my best recollection), seeing a imobolized Sherman being moving, but seconds later the Other sherman pushing it appeared. The imobolized sherman had some los, but was KOed later. I found that very interesting. I'll try to find the AAR, might be on CMHQ. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> In one of my games against the AI, my 75mm pillbox was making a neat pile of disabled tanks on a hill crest that offered the only approach for the AI's tanks to join the battle. It was very weird to watch the disabled tanks being pushed by yet unspotted enemy tanks. It was like watching the Dawn of The Living-Dead Tanks If CM allowed dead vehicles to be used for cover, I could see the ultimate gamey tactic of pushing dead vehicles in front of you as extra armor. Gyrene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer_Meyer Posted June 14, 2001 Share Posted June 14, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>If CM allowed dead vehicles to be used for cover, I could see the ultimate gamey tactic of pushing dead vehicles in front of you as extra armor.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Why would that be gamey?? It makes a sound tactic to me, ofcourse it has it's flaws as your tank is slower, much worse LOS and other problems. But what makes it gamey, it might, or might not of have happened during the war. If it did, this gave the tank pushing the nocked out tank protection. I guess the biggest reason is, if the tank in front of it got hit and brewed up, the other tank most likly would too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted June 14, 2001 Share Posted June 14, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I guess the biggest reason is, if the tank in front of it got hit and brewed up, the other tank most likly would too.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, It would depend on what gun hit what tank. If an 88 hit a Stuart being pushed by another Stuart... I guess it would not be that gamey, a larger tank pushing a smaller disabled one would have this nice portable "hull down" to take around. Gyrene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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